Do these guys know what harm they do?
Thread Starter
Do these guys know what harm they do?
OK, it's second-hand, there might be more to the story etc etc, but we rotor pilots have privileges bestowed upon us in terms of minimum visibility - with an application of some common sense and responsibility, we stand a chance of keeping those privileges.
However, I fear that knobheads like this will ultimately spoil the party.
I mean, look at the TAF before reading the rest of it. At the risk of being flamed, what a prat.
'Weatherman' is a errr...weather man, by the way.
However, I fear that knobheads like this will ultimately spoil the party.
Hi all,
Can you believe someone actuially tried to fly into EGBO (Halfpenny Green) on Monday given these TAFs?
TAF EGBB 060458Z 0606/0706 30005KT 0300 FZFG VV///
PROB30 TEMPO 0606/0611 0800 FZFG IC BKN002
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
BECMG 0618/0621 0300 FZFG VV///=
TAF EGOS 060441Z 0606/0615 VRB03KT 0200 FZFG VV///=
It just so happened he descended through fog into 80m vis about 3-miles from EGBO at 1115, into an impossible landing area, and who should be there at the time but me (walking my dog)! A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field.
I am just stunned that anyone attempted to fly given those TAFs.
Simon
Can you believe someone actuially tried to fly into EGBO (Halfpenny Green) on Monday given these TAFs?
TAF EGBB 060458Z 0606/0706 30005KT 0300 FZFG VV///
PROB30 TEMPO 0606/0611 0800 FZFG IC BKN002
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
BECMG 0618/0621 0300 FZFG VV///=
TAF EGOS 060441Z 0606/0615 VRB03KT 0200 FZFG VV///=
It just so happened he descended through fog into 80m vis about 3-miles from EGBO at 1115, into an impossible landing area, and who should be there at the time but me (walking my dog)! A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field.
I am just stunned that anyone attempted to fly given those TAFs.
Simon
'Weatherman' is a errr...weather man, by the way.
Looked at the TAF.
What time did it all happen? 1115Z?
The original TAF was issued at 060458Z.
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
And the 1100 TAF sez -
TAF EGBB 061103Z 0612/0712 30005KT 9999 FEW030
PROB30 TEMPO 0612/0618 5000 BR
BECMG 0617/0620 0300 FZFG VV///=
SA 06/12/2010 11:20->
METAR EGBB 061120Z VRB02KT 8000 NSC M03/M03 Q1002=
Min visibility in most parts of the world outside controlled space for helicopters is if you can see enough to stop before you hit it!
EGBB looks OK to me.
No doubt EGOS was crap at the time although it is 25 miles away!
METAR COR EGOS 061050Z 00000KT 0150 SG FZFG VV/// M05/M06
Q1002 BLACKRED NOSIG=
sounds about right!
How he ended up where he was is anyones guess but the weather reports didn't look as bad as erroneously portrayed.
What time did it all happen? 1115Z?
The original TAF was issued at 060458Z.
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
And the 1100 TAF sez -
TAF EGBB 061103Z 0612/0712 30005KT 9999 FEW030
PROB30 TEMPO 0612/0618 5000 BR
BECMG 0617/0620 0300 FZFG VV///=
SA 06/12/2010 11:20->
METAR EGBB 061120Z VRB02KT 8000 NSC M03/M03 Q1002=
Min visibility in most parts of the world outside controlled space for helicopters is if you can see enough to stop before you hit it!
EGBB looks OK to me.
No doubt EGOS was crap at the time although it is 25 miles away!
METAR COR EGOS 061050Z 00000KT 0150 SG FZFG VV/// M05/M06
Q1002 BLACKRED NOSIG=
OK, it's second-hand, there might be more to the story etc etc
How he ended up where he was is anyones guess but the weather reports didn't look as bad as erroneously portrayed.
Thread Starter
Min visibility in most parts of the world outside controlled space for helicopters is if you can see enough to stop before you hit it!
No doubt EGOS was crap at the time although it is 25 miles away!
I suppose dropping his machine into a playground full of kids was 'just one of them things', huh?
Yup, 80m viz. Not sure aircraft type, bigger than an R22. Luckily, I was positioned one side of a small 'valley' he was on the other and were almost at eye level with each other. I measured it out today and the distance from one side to the other is about 40m. Rear rotors approx 3ft off ground, ground slopes around 40 degree gradient..say no more!
And yes JoeC, those were about as big as I was trying to make my hands!!!
Subsequently found out he landed on a school playing fields and that the school children were on the fie,d at the time. Oh well, any port in a storm?
CAA dealing with it I understand.
Simon
And yes JoeC, those were about as big as I was trying to make my hands!!!
Subsequently found out he landed on a school playing fields and that the school children were on the fie,d at the time. Oh well, any port in a storm?
CAA dealing with it I understand.
Simon
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 425 Likes
on
224 Posts
Min visibility in most parts of the world outside controlled space for helicopters is if you can see enough to stop before you hit it!
So I wonder what icing clearance that "IFR" helicopter has...
The CAA normally deem school playing fields to be a "congested area", for which prior written CAA permission is needed for a landing.
I hope the pilot has learned the error of his/her ways because this is just the sort of incident the press love to pounce on, to illustrate just how dangerous helicopters can be.....
My point is that the sensationalizing of the incident is using a TAF which is clearly hours old and probably has little relevance at all yet somebody bases their whole argument on it.
Nobody knows if the guy even read any weather reports!
He ends up in the crap and in a school playing field. What that has to do with a 6 hour old forecast from an airport miles away has got me.
In defense the current TAF and METAR at the same location that he is being hung on was OK.
Methinks the horse might be a bit too high.
Nobody knows if the guy even read any weather reports!
He ends up in the crap and in a school playing field. What that has to do with a 6 hour old forecast from an airport miles away has got me.
In defense the current TAF and METAR at the same location that he is being hung on was OK.
Methinks the horse might be a bit too high.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Nothing like not knowing the full story to get a good thread going is there!
If we put what the thread starter on the other site says all together;
So concerened was 'Simon' that he didn't even go over to see if there was a problem. If for no other reason than to make sure all was ok.
No, no no, quick as a flash he went and loaded up the TAFs! If he had gone over, he might have found out, even out of simple curiosity what was occuring. He may have found out where the ac took off from and where he was trying to get to, was it actually EGBO or somewhere else?
After all, Simon only assumes he was lost, after giving him the benefit of the doubt! FFS
Simon claims that "A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field." Not bad at 40m in fog and a pilot looking for a landing site, with perhaps other things on his mind. Would you trust a dog walker that you've just 'descended upon'?
Simon subsequently found that he had guided him into a school playing field. So, how do you all feel about that?
Good choice of landing area by the pilot? Luck? 'Well done Simon' for guiding a helicopter into a school field? etc
By Simons description
"I measured it out....about 40m...approx 3ft...around 40 degree." 
Probably a Chinook then!
Bigger than an R22
30m long (rotors turning)
Rear rotors
"Can you believe someone actuially tried to fly into EGBO (Halfpenny Green) on Monday given these TAFs?
TAF EGBB 060458Z 0606/0706 30005KT 0300 FZFG VV///
PROB30 TEMPO 0606/0611 0800 FZFG IC BKN002
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
BECMG 0618/0621 0300 FZFG VV///=
TAF EGOS 060441Z 0606/0615 VRB03KT 0200 FZFG VV///=
It just so happened he descended through fog into 80m vis about 3-miles from EGBO at 1115, into an impossible landing area, and who should be there at the time but me (walking my dog)! A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field."
"Of course I gave him the benefit of the soubt at first, thinking there could have been engine or icing problems, but it appears (to the best of my knowledge at the moment) that he was 'lost'."
"Not sure aircraft type, bigger than an R22. Luckily, I was positioned one side of a small 'valley' he was on the other and were almost at eye level with each other. I measured it out today and the distance from one side to the other is about 40m. Rear rotors approx 3ft off ground, ground slopes around 40 degree gradient..say no more!"
"Subsequently found out he landed on a school playing fields and that the school children were on the field at the time. Oh well, any port in a storm?"
TAF EGBB 060458Z 0606/0706 30005KT 0300 FZFG VV///
PROB30 TEMPO 0606/0611 0800 FZFG IC BKN002
BECMG 0611/0614 3000 BR BKN004
TEMPO 0614/0618 5000 SCT004
BECMG 0618/0621 0300 FZFG VV///=
TAF EGOS 060441Z 0606/0615 VRB03KT 0200 FZFG VV///=
It just so happened he descended through fog into 80m vis about 3-miles from EGBO at 1115, into an impossible landing area, and who should be there at the time but me (walking my dog)! A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field."
"Of course I gave him the benefit of the soubt at first, thinking there could have been engine or icing problems, but it appears (to the best of my knowledge at the moment) that he was 'lost'."
"Not sure aircraft type, bigger than an R22. Luckily, I was positioned one side of a small 'valley' he was on the other and were almost at eye level with each other. I measured it out today and the distance from one side to the other is about 40m. Rear rotors approx 3ft off ground, ground slopes around 40 degree gradient..say no more!"
"Subsequently found out he landed on a school playing fields and that the school children were on the field at the time. Oh well, any port in a storm?"
So concerened was 'Simon' that he didn't even go over to see if there was a problem. If for no other reason than to make sure all was ok.
No, no no, quick as a flash he went and loaded up the TAFs! If he had gone over, he might have found out, even out of simple curiosity what was occuring. He may have found out where the ac took off from and where he was trying to get to, was it actually EGBO or somewhere else?
After all, Simon only assumes he was lost, after giving him the benefit of the doubt! FFS
Simon claims that "A few hand gestures later I managed to get him into an open field." Not bad at 40m in fog and a pilot looking for a landing site, with perhaps other things on his mind. Would you trust a dog walker that you've just 'descended upon'?
Simon subsequently found that he had guided him into a school playing field. So, how do you all feel about that?
Good choice of landing area by the pilot? Luck? 'Well done Simon' for guiding a helicopter into a school field? etc
By Simons description
"Not sure aircraft type, bigger than an R22. Luckily, I was positioned one side of a small 'valley' he was on the other and were almost at eye level with each other. I measured it out today and the distance from one side to the other is about 40m. Rear rotors approx 3ft off ground, ground slopes around 40 degree gradient..say no more!"
Probably a Chinook then!
Bigger than an R22
30m long (rotors turning)
Rear rotors
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Maybe there was a problem with the aircraft;
Just for arguments sake, lets say the flight was from A - B, via o'head EGBO, after all, the tops were around 500ft and all above was 8/8 BLU
.
.
.
Then it all goes wrong!
What would you do when it says...Land Immediately, or Land as Soon as Possible?
Just for arguments sake, lets say the flight was from A - B, via o'head EGBO, after all, the tops were around 500ft and all above was 8/8 BLU
.
.
.
Then it all goes wrong!
What would you do when it says...Land Immediately, or Land as Soon as Possible?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 425 Likes
on
224 Posts
No doubt we can all discover the truth when the MOR is published.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Ooooh nearly! Is no one going to defend this pilot? You disappoint me Rotorheads as there is usually at least one with an excuse.
Excellent. Knew I wouldn't have to wait long.
Excellent. Knew I wouldn't have to wait long.
Hardly an excuse, simply highlighting that we don't know anything about this.
Might be this one then?
A helicopter on route to Halfpenny Green airport made a unsheduled landing on the Ounsdale School field during break time on Monday morning. Staff and students became aware of the helicopter as it passed over the school field but were initially unable to see it through the thick fog. The unusually dense fog made it impossible for the pilot to continue and the large field was a fortunate opportunity.
One student turned to his friends when they saw the helicopter and said “I’d laugh if that lands on our field”, which of course it then did.
Attempts in the afternoon to take off again were thwarted by continued poor visibility & ice on the rotor blades. The vehicle was stranded overnight and was only able to continue its journey on Tuesday morning.
Yup. Definitely a Chinook Mr Cholmondely-Smythe.
A helicopter on route to Halfpenny Green airport made a unsheduled landing on the Ounsdale School field during break time on Monday morning. Staff and students became aware of the helicopter as it passed over the school field but were initially unable to see it through the thick fog. The unusually dense fog made it impossible for the pilot to continue and the large field was a fortunate opportunity.
One student turned to his friends when they saw the helicopter and said “I’d laugh if that lands on our field”, which of course it then did.
Attempts in the afternoon to take off again were thwarted by continued poor visibility & ice on the rotor blades. The vehicle was stranded overnight and was only able to continue its journey on Tuesday morning.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Excellent, lets google map, 'Ounsdale School'... I prefer Simons version of events, it's more sensational.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 425 Likes
on
224 Posts
So there will be an MOR to read, oh goody. 
Anyone else like flying singles in IMC and icing conditions?
Anyone else like flying singles in IMC and icing conditions?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I think you meant to say that Simon forgot to mention how he heroically marshalled the aircraft away from the school!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Epiph,
You are clearly after a reaction.
As it happened, on Monday the weather perhaps wasn't as bad as Simon tells us. After all, he was merely a dog walker, the fact he is a weatherman isn't really relevant as all he can add to the story is that where he was it was foggy. Certainly when I drove into work on Monday morning it wasn't foggy. I remember commenting that it was as if the motorway gantries warning of fog patches were acting as a fog dispersal system.
If you read RVDTs earlier post, you would see the 'updated' (not the sensational 'Simon' earlier) TAF read;
TAF EGBB 061103Z 0612/0712 30005KT 9999 FEW030
PROB30 TEMPO 0612/0618 5000 BR
BECMG 0617/0620 0300 FZFG VV///=
SA 06/12/2010 11:20->
METAR EGBB 061120Z VRB02KT 8000 NSC M03/M03 Q1002=
As another that was flying around Birmingham and Wolverhampton on Monday, and can verify that generally it wasn't as bad as Simon paints it, this event could simply be a case of getting caught out by the weather.
Am I defending this? Not necessarily as I don't know the full story.
However if it turns out that the point of departure was clear, the route was clear, Halfpenny was asked about their weather and was suitable at the time, I would defend the decision to land in a school playing field, because it's a lot better to do that than challenge the consequences of trying to carry on!
If you then read RVDTs link;
"Made it impossible for the Pilot to continue and the large field was a fortunate opportunity"
Good call
You are clearly after a reaction.
As it happened, on Monday the weather perhaps wasn't as bad as Simon tells us. After all, he was merely a dog walker, the fact he is a weatherman isn't really relevant as all he can add to the story is that where he was it was foggy. Certainly when I drove into work on Monday morning it wasn't foggy. I remember commenting that it was as if the motorway gantries warning of fog patches were acting as a fog dispersal system.
If you read RVDTs earlier post, you would see the 'updated' (not the sensational 'Simon' earlier) TAF read;
TAF EGBB 061103Z 0612/0712 30005KT 9999 FEW030
PROB30 TEMPO 0612/0618 5000 BR
BECMG 0617/0620 0300 FZFG VV///=
SA 06/12/2010 11:20->
METAR EGBB 061120Z VRB02KT 8000 NSC M03/M03 Q1002=
As another that was flying around Birmingham and Wolverhampton on Monday, and can verify that generally it wasn't as bad as Simon paints it, this event could simply be a case of getting caught out by the weather.
Am I defending this? Not necessarily as I don't know the full story.
However if it turns out that the point of departure was clear, the route was clear, Halfpenny was asked about their weather and was suitable at the time, I would defend the decision to land in a school playing field, because it's a lot better to do that than challenge the consequences of trying to carry on!
If you then read RVDTs link;
A helicopter on route to Halfpenny Green airport made a unsheduled landing on the Ounsdale School field during break time on Monday morning. Staff and students became aware of the helicopter as it passed over the school field but were initially unable to see it through the thick fog. The unusually dense fog made it impossible for the pilot to continue and the large field was a fortunate opportunity.
Good call