Another helicopter down in the Mourne Mountains
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Sounds like hummingfrog has had an unsuccessful fishing trip and is on the way back to shore on his backpedalable pedalo.
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SilsoeSid, you don't always have to have the last word on everything and other people are allowed their opinion...
SS
Why are there always people on here who seem to always have a negative view on what people post
. Along with meaningless additions to their remarks
Having flown helicopters for a few years now I am interested in how operations I have little direct knowledge of keep up their skill sets. Mountain flying is not a skill set you can be shown a couple of times and then left to get on with it without recurrent training/practise. It will bite you.
I am interested in how the civilian world of Air Ambulance and Police Aviation trains its pilots to operate, and keep current, in the Mountains.
There is always a chain of events which leads up to an accident. I have my own theories, which may be completely wrong, which is why I will wait for the AAIB report.
HF
Why are there always people on here who seem to always have a negative view on what people post
. Along with meaningless additions to their remarks
and is on the way back to shore on his backpedalable pedalo
I am interested in how the civilian world of Air Ambulance and Police Aviation trains its pilots to operate, and keep current, in the Mountains.
There is always a chain of events which leads up to an accident. I have my own theories, which may be completely wrong, which is why I will wait for the AAIB report.
HF
HF
The simple answer to your 'reasonable' question is NONE, the majority of the guys there underwent the same mountain training as you did in your previous encarnation, and maintain their own skill levels.
The simple answer to your 'reasonable' question is NONE, the majority of the guys there underwent the same mountain training as you did in your previous encarnation, and maintain their own skill levels.
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The pilot of the Twin Squirrel would probably have been provided by the outfit that leased the aircraft to PSNI, rather than the PSNI. It is quite likely that the Squirrel would have been operated under the PAOC of the aircraft owner. Adding a type to an existing PAOC (like an AOC) is non-trivial.
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Helinut, usual practice in most PASU's up until recently was to hire a loan a/c when main a/c was in for its annual inspection or off line for lengthy repairs. Typically this would be police role equipped Twin Squirrel, flown by the usual PASU pilots under the unit PAOC. In effect it would be business as usual for the boys, but just in a spare a/c.
Most PASU pilots I have ever known are ex RAF / RN / AAC / Bristows etc and are hugely experienced guys, well used to assessing and flying in highly challenging environments. That is why they get the jobs in the first place. We don't know what happened for sure yet, but the ill informed speculation found on here is pointless. As for the darwin awards comment I agree with bladecrack.
The most important thing here is that everyone got out ok.
Most PASU pilots I have ever known are ex RAF / RN / AAC / Bristows etc and are hugely experienced guys, well used to assessing and flying in highly challenging environments. That is why they get the jobs in the first place. We don't know what happened for sure yet, but the ill informed speculation found on here is pointless. As for the darwin awards comment I agree with bladecrack.
The most important thing here is that everyone got out ok.
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brassmonkey,
I am familiar with the situation you describe, although it is largely historical and related to those units who started with Squirrels and then moved onward and upward. It was only applicable to those units that held PAOCs that included the Squirrel. In fact, most of those units gave up doing that some while ago. It was costly in continuation training and currency atrophied. Also, the supply of police equipped Squirrels dried up. I may be wrong, but I believe that PSNI never operated Squirrels under their PAOC, and so probably do not have the AS355 on their PAOC. An ASU cannot operate a type unless they have it on their PAOC.
For a few years now it has been very difficult to get hold of police Squirrels because there was little demand. I think G-SEWP is/was one of the few available. Where Squirrels have been used, they need to be bought in with an associated PAOC and pilots. In these circumstances, the pilots may not be as experienced as you suggest. I was only mentioning this, as the post previous to mine implicitly assumed that the accident aircraft was flown by PSNI pilots, which might not be the case.
Undoubtedely, it is good news that no one seems to have been seriously injured.
I believe the AS355 was leased in addition to the PSNI machines in any case. So they would need extra pilots.
I am familiar with the situation you describe, although it is largely historical and related to those units who started with Squirrels and then moved onward and upward. It was only applicable to those units that held PAOCs that included the Squirrel. In fact, most of those units gave up doing that some while ago. It was costly in continuation training and currency atrophied. Also, the supply of police equipped Squirrels dried up. I may be wrong, but I believe that PSNI never operated Squirrels under their PAOC, and so probably do not have the AS355 on their PAOC. An ASU cannot operate a type unless they have it on their PAOC.
For a few years now it has been very difficult to get hold of police Squirrels because there was little demand. I think G-SEWP is/was one of the few available. Where Squirrels have been used, they need to be bought in with an associated PAOC and pilots. In these circumstances, the pilots may not be as experienced as you suggest. I was only mentioning this, as the post previous to mine implicitly assumed that the accident aircraft was flown by PSNI pilots, which might not be the case.
Undoubtedely, it is good news that no one seems to have been seriously injured.
I believe the AS355 was leased in addition to the PSNI machines in any case. So they would need extra pilots.
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I'm told the second heli had members of AIB on board
It was carrying a pilot, photographer, observer and an officer from the police emergency team
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I thought anyone flying under a PAOC (as a police pilot) regardless if it a PSNI pilot or a Veritair pilot had to have the minimum police requirement?
BBC News - Mournes helicopter crash site assessed
BBC News - Mournes helicopter crash site assessed
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WL,
Thanks for the link to the views of G-SEWP. The damage is pretty severe, for what might have been expected to be a slow speed accident (if you take notice of the sketchy information available). You can see the difference between the generations of helicopter if you compare the damage to the cabin of G-SEWP with the wreck of the Strathclyde police crash.
Just because something is written down does not mean that it necessarily gets complied with. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not referring to this particular case, but to the general principle.
Thanks for the link to the views of G-SEWP. The damage is pretty severe, for what might have been expected to be a slow speed accident (if you take notice of the sketchy information available). You can see the difference between the generations of helicopter if you compare the damage to the cabin of G-SEWP with the wreck of the Strathclyde police crash.
Just because something is written down does not mean that it necessarily gets complied with. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not referring to this particular case, but to the general principle.
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Link to AAIB report http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...WP%2006-11.pdf
Synopsis
The pilot lost control of the helicopter whilst manoeuvring at low speed to approach a hilltop landing site in quite strong wind conditions. It descended rapidly with increasing forward ground speed, before striking the ground short of the point of intended landing and passing through a substantial stone wall. The helicopter was destroyed but the occupants suffered only minor injuries. The investigation determined that an error of judgement or perception led the pilot to attempt a downwind approach. A combination of human factors was thought to have contributed to the accident.
The pilot lost control of the helicopter whilst manoeuvring at low speed to approach a hilltop landing site in quite strong wind conditions. It descended rapidly with increasing forward ground speed, before striking the ground short of the point of intended landing and passing through a substantial stone wall. The helicopter was destroyed but the occupants suffered only minor injuries. The investigation determined that an error of judgement or perception led the pilot to attempt a downwind approach. A combination of human factors was thought to have contributed to the accident.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 9th Jun 2011 at 06:16. Reason: Add quote from link
