Canadian MI-17s
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Canadian MI-17s
I have been told that the Canadian Defence Forces are purchasing MI-17 helicopters for use in Afghanistan. I understand that they have leased 8 MI-17s since around 2008, but this purchase is news to me and I can't find any info on it. Can anyone confirm?
Cheers.
Cheers.
US DOD Awards Russian Firm with Iraqi Helicopter ContractThe US DOD has purchased 22 unit of Mi-17. Perhaps that´s is what was beiing reffered too?
Last edited by Aesir; 27th Oct 2010 at 18:31. Reason: Forgot the link
that is Mi17V5
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Yes Ула́н-Удэ́ (Ulan-Ude) is on schedule for this orders, perhaps you know this plant deliver last order ahead of schedules for UTAIR (this company having now 260 helicopters).
Anyone know that Mi-17 is by far best helicopter for Afghanistan for this jobs and we are putting spares stores to Kabul also (but not speak to much for that now).
The chief pilot for prunes understand how good russian helicopter is and understand.
Anyone know that Mi-17 is by far best helicopter for Afghanistan for this jobs and we are putting spares stores to Kabul also (but not speak to much for that now).
The chief pilot for prunes understand how good russian helicopter is and understand.
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Mos,
The only reason the Afghan military is getting them is because they have experience in operating them and the machine can be maintained with a sledgehammer.
The UN had 5 MI-8's operating for them in Afghanistan in 2004, in 6 months they were down to 1.
The only reason the Afghan military is getting them is because they have experience in operating them and the machine can be maintained with a sledgehammer.
The UN had 5 MI-8's operating for them in Afghanistan in 2004, in 6 months they were down to 1.
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Rick1128
The Mil 8 has proven to be an excellent machine. I was on logging in PNG with them. If you want them to keep them flying, employ Russians. They do a fine job but need rather a large maintenance crew.
A worry I have brought up in the past is the continuing quality (or lack there of) of spares parts and rotables.
With the Russian Federation going through growing pains and lawlessness in general, just who is ensuring the Quality Control is up to scratch or watching out for bogus parts?
The Mil 8 has proven to be an excellent machine. I was on logging in PNG with them. If you want them to keep them flying, employ Russians. They do a fine job but need rather a large maintenance crew.
A worry I have brought up in the past is the continuing quality (or lack there of) of spares parts and rotables.
With the Russian Federation going through growing pains and lawlessness in general, just who is ensuring the Quality Control is up to scratch or watching out for bogus parts?
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PB, the ones the UN had were operated by Russians and Ukrainians. It appears the standard operating policy in Russian was run till it breaks. Unfortunately, when it breaks in Afghanistan, it a nasty spot. The operations and safety folks at the UN hate Russian helicopters, but the UN accountants love them because they are so cheap. Until they see the fuel and crew costs.
Mi 8MTV/17/171 is safe, if you run it safe with experienced pilots and flight engineers.
It is true that for 100 h check, you need week and 6-8 engineers,
but on the other hand, that helicopter is capable to sustain heavy
malpractice on flight and maintenance.
Usually that is the case in XXXstan.
New units can fly up to 4500 h on airframe before MOH (MGB and TV3 still 1500h)
which also improves price/performance ratio....
It is true that for 100 h check, you need week and 6-8 engineers,
but on the other hand, that helicopter is capable to sustain heavy
malpractice on flight and maintenance.
Usually that is the case in XXXstan.
New units can fly up to 4500 h on airframe before MOH (MGB and TV3 still 1500h)
which also improves price/performance ratio....
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The Mi-8/17 is one of most reliable and successful helicopter in history with large number of flight hours.
9Aplus dont mind about those people because they only want the western helicopter - let htem have. We will take india, china, africa and other areas (with growing economy).
Which is you prefer to be in UH1 or Mi-8 in war zone? Which his surivie better? Every place for war they want helicopter which is capale for surviving. We know next year fighting will start in sudan because of refendum and already they ask for more helicopter and they tell us that even if they could buy the western - they dont want it.
Also, we are working with Euroscopter and the Mi-38 has gain very much interest from nearly all our Mi-17 customers. Mi-38 will become next best helicopter for utility in china, india, africa, part of south americas and so on.
Mi-38 Helicopters
9Aplus dont mind about those people because they only want the western helicopter - let htem have. We will take india, china, africa and other areas (with growing economy).
Which is you prefer to be in UH1 or Mi-8 in war zone? Which his surivie better? Every place for war they want helicopter which is capale for surviving. We know next year fighting will start in sudan because of refendum and already they ask for more helicopter and they tell us that even if they could buy the western - they dont want it.
Also, we are working with Euroscopter and the Mi-38 has gain very much interest from nearly all our Mi-17 customers. Mi-38 will become next best helicopter for utility in china, india, africa, part of south americas and so on.
Mi-38 Helicopters
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In my experience with Mil products their quality is not very good and requires some diligence when critical parts come in. There seems to be an after market that sells less than quality parts and this is a serious problem when dealing with gearboxes, blades, engines, in fact all flight safety parts.
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9Aplus you see the americans comments all of them cannot accept the beenfits of Mil aircraft.
They do not understand our history from 1905 russian revolution, Lenin, USSR and what we have challenge as a region. When u see what we face over the past century, our changes, our governemnt our economy you can be proud for what we produce, in size and in numbers.
The spare parts if order directly from Mil factory we are supplying guarantee (this is normal) and all government using Mil know this.
We know that our products in past have not had the same as americans in being so fine but ours has others benefits and the work they do in many countries and under many flight hours is a strong achievement.
What I beleeve is that in the future our products they are becoming more improved and they will continue to do this and is reason that Euroscopter and Agustas are working in Russia today.
[I know my english is not so good that is my problem - we are not using english everyday in my office]
They do not understand our history from 1905 russian revolution, Lenin, USSR and what we have challenge as a region. When u see what we face over the past century, our changes, our governemnt our economy you can be proud for what we produce, in size and in numbers.
The spare parts if order directly from Mil factory we are supplying guarantee (this is normal) and all government using Mil know this.
We know that our products in past have not had the same as americans in being so fine but ours has others benefits and the work they do in many countries and under many flight hours is a strong achievement.
What I beleeve is that in the future our products they are becoming more improved and they will continue to do this and is reason that Euroscopter and Agustas are working in Russia today.
[I know my english is not so good that is my problem - we are not using english everyday in my office]
Rick1128,
With respect… Your comments about the MI-8 / MI-17, and the US and UN view of them, are simply untrue. Either you don’t have direct experience with them, or you’re exhibiting a bias based on old (1980s/90’s information).
I have direct and current experience with the UN, NATO (ISAF) and US Forces in Afghanistan. I also have years of experience with the UN (DPKO) in other parts of the world. (And I’m a born and brought up “Westerner”.)
First off, US Forces are still using MI8’s in Afghanistan (and elsewhere). As are Canadians, Brits, and NATO itself. And most UN DPKO Field Officers (and Mission aviation personnel) prefer MI8’s (especially MTV’s) to Western machines for the vast majority of tasks (excluding in most missions such things as SAR and night-ops – because of aircraft equipment and specific training). I would be most happy to engage in PM exchanges with you on the specifics of any part of what I assert.
I – along with most “Westerners” – was not a fan of Eastern European (mostly former Soviet Bloc) aircraft for a long time. What most of us in these difficult environments (like Afghanistan, Africa and the Middle East) now acknowledge is that the old view is no longer valid. And the reason is simple: Once those aircraft manufacturers, operators, and maintenance organizations were made to meet ICAO and “Western” standards of maintenance, training and safety culture, the operations began to equal western companies in both reliability and safety. Indeed, in some types of operations, the MI-8’s (and of course MI-26’s in heavy roles) exceed the capability – and even sometimes the reliability – of similar Western machines.
grizz
With respect… Your comments about the MI-8 / MI-17, and the US and UN view of them, are simply untrue. Either you don’t have direct experience with them, or you’re exhibiting a bias based on old (1980s/90’s information).
I have direct and current experience with the UN, NATO (ISAF) and US Forces in Afghanistan. I also have years of experience with the UN (DPKO) in other parts of the world. (And I’m a born and brought up “Westerner”.)
First off, US Forces are still using MI8’s in Afghanistan (and elsewhere). As are Canadians, Brits, and NATO itself. And most UN DPKO Field Officers (and Mission aviation personnel) prefer MI8’s (especially MTV’s) to Western machines for the vast majority of tasks (excluding in most missions such things as SAR and night-ops – because of aircraft equipment and specific training). I would be most happy to engage in PM exchanges with you on the specifics of any part of what I assert.
I – along with most “Westerners” – was not a fan of Eastern European (mostly former Soviet Bloc) aircraft for a long time. What most of us in these difficult environments (like Afghanistan, Africa and the Middle East) now acknowledge is that the old view is no longer valid. And the reason is simple: Once those aircraft manufacturers, operators, and maintenance organizations were made to meet ICAO and “Western” standards of maintenance, training and safety culture, the operations began to equal western companies in both reliability and safety. Indeed, in some types of operations, the MI-8’s (and of course MI-26’s in heavy roles) exceed the capability – and even sometimes the reliability – of similar Western machines.
grizz
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iorgasilviubogdan - Mi-38 we are prepare to make test flight program on number 2 prototype and this testing is taking place here in moscow at mil plant after delivery from Kazanstev. With prototype number 1 we fly nearly 100 flight and this is using PW127/5. on prototype 2 the TVY-117V engine will be used.
You can expect at least some more 12 months of development for mi-38 before we give final approval for full manufacture to begin (if all going well).
Please see our Mi-38 here:
Grizzled - we thank you for support and understanding.
Some peoples outside of countries not using Mil equipment do not understand the jobds htese aircraft are requiring to perform. I have pilot around me with very many experience which if you do not see it with your eyes you cannot believe it.
Also many western helicopter persons do not understand developing nation situation especially africa - defence force having little money but still need defend border, we have case of mi-8 with no maintainence performed for more than 2 years but still flying. This one we dont recommend but sometimes our helicopters are put into this situations.
You can expect at least some more 12 months of development for mi-38 before we give final approval for full manufacture to begin (if all going well).
Please see our Mi-38 here:
Grizzled - we thank you for support and understanding.
Some peoples outside of countries not using Mil equipment do not understand the jobds htese aircraft are requiring to perform. I have pilot around me with very many experience which if you do not see it with your eyes you cannot believe it.
Also many western helicopter persons do not understand developing nation situation especially africa - defence force having little money but still need defend border, we have case of mi-8 with no maintainence performed for more than 2 years but still flying. This one we dont recommend but sometimes our helicopters are put into this situations.
Last edited by moscovite; 29th Oct 2010 at 15:40.