R44 crashed - 4 heavily injured
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I think this accident could be avoided if off airport landigs would be legal in germany, and helicopters pilots would have a chance to train it.
Half of my landings in my training was off airport. But I am not from Germany.
Half of my landings in my training was off airport. But I am not from Germany.
I think this accident could be avoided if off airport landigs would be legal in germany, and helicopters pilots would have a chance to train it.
This is about the fundamentals of what is and what isn’t a safe approach. Steep approaches should be taught along with their hazards; along with limited power; and over-pitching; and approaching an off-field site with particular caution. An accident like this simply need not happen: it shows either lack of training or a lack of judgement. Or both.
4-up in an R44 coming in like that: completely inept. You are almost certain to run out of power and over-pitch. And if it turns out the pilot was PPL and carrying fare-paying passengers I hope he goes to jail.
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if the name given in the news was right, he is the owner of a commercial company. But it IS being investigated whether he was qualified or not. The best is to just wait for the official reports.
The 3 injured have left the hospital, the female singer is now stable but still in an artificial coma.
The 3 injured have left the hospital, the female singer is now stable but still in an artificial coma.
So why he didnt made a longer circle for a better landing? From my view this was a kamikaze approach.
That would be a typical beginner pilots error.
I wasn't there of course, and I have no idea if this was even a low time pilot. So, let's not take this too far and wait for the official report instead.
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The other question that has not been raised is why he was making a left hand orbit/approach into landing (landing site out off the front pax window)
Rule #1 when possible always do a an orbit/approach with the landing area on your PIC side of the a/c when coming into a Confined/"off airport landing". In this case a right hand orbit. This may have given him a better judegment of the landing area!!!
Rule #1 when possible always do a an orbit/approach with the landing area on your PIC side of the a/c when coming into a Confined/"off airport landing". In this case a right hand orbit. This may have given him a better judegment of the landing area!!!
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Guys...Guys!
Having a passing interest in all things German and/or R44 I've been watching this thread for a few days. That shouldn't mean anything except you're all now making my head spin, not to mention making me feel very old indeed. Stop it!
For a start, too many here think AAIB-type investigation is based on what they imagine, rather than what happened. Worse, what they think is derived from 10 seconds of almost nothingness from You Tube. Gawd help us!
Speak, by all means, if you KNOW something. Contribute something interesting or otherwise meaningful if you HAVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE. But desist, please, if your only input is based on what your befuddled brain imagines might have happened having just arrived home from your local hostelry.
I myself, have just achieved the latter, but at least I still have the imagination to wonder why the internet's greatest contribution to a recordable accident is why so many feel qualified to expound so much horseradish to so few. Please don't ask me to identify the exact nonsense posted above. If you cannot see it for yourself you are not a rotorhead - at least not one your instructor should admit too - and my answer would likely be wasted.
Like I say, Pprune is at least one of the better sites where rotorheads can debate. All are welcome in my book, but for pity's sake have something meaningful to say, please. Don'y just enter and empty your bladder.
Mr Mod...am I wrong?
Fellow contributors...am I wrong?
Otherwise people, what's the point?
Dan
PS: And do spare me all the 'this is a rumour network' drivel. If you want to attempt to chastise me feel free, but at least honour my age by doing it with gusto.
Having a passing interest in all things German and/or R44 I've been watching this thread for a few days. That shouldn't mean anything except you're all now making my head spin, not to mention making me feel very old indeed. Stop it!
For a start, too many here think AAIB-type investigation is based on what they imagine, rather than what happened. Worse, what they think is derived from 10 seconds of almost nothingness from You Tube. Gawd help us!
Speak, by all means, if you KNOW something. Contribute something interesting or otherwise meaningful if you HAVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE. But desist, please, if your only input is based on what your befuddled brain imagines might have happened having just arrived home from your local hostelry.
I myself, have just achieved the latter, but at least I still have the imagination to wonder why the internet's greatest contribution to a recordable accident is why so many feel qualified to expound so much horseradish to so few. Please don't ask me to identify the exact nonsense posted above. If you cannot see it for yourself you are not a rotorhead - at least not one your instructor should admit too - and my answer would likely be wasted.
Like I say, Pprune is at least one of the better sites where rotorheads can debate. All are welcome in my book, but for pity's sake have something meaningful to say, please. Don'y just enter and empty your bladder.
Mr Mod...am I wrong?
Fellow contributors...am I wrong?
Otherwise people, what's the point?
Dan
PS: And do spare me all the 'this is a rumour network' drivel. If you want to attempt to chastise me feel free, but at least honour my age by doing it with gusto.
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Dantruck agree with u 100%......
And is it just my imagination in the video or what?
It sounds like the RRPM is dropping just before impact is made with ground, VRS or over pitching?
And is it just my imagination in the video or what?
It sounds like the RRPM is dropping just before impact is made with ground, VRS or over pitching?
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Ok, back to the facts:
Fact 1: The R44 Raven II helicopter belongs to a company called HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH
The owner of the company / aircraft is the involved pilot.
Fact 2: Heli Life International GmbH does NOT hold an AOC.
Fact 3: The above aircraft is operated under the AOC of Aero Heli International GmbH & Co. KG.
Fact 4: The pilot / owner holds a private pilot licence PPL(H) since 2007/2008.
Fact 5: At present HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH has no commercial pilot on the payroll. Maybe some freelance pilot.
Fact 6: Prior this flight the pilot conducted a sightseeing trip / pleasure flight for compensation with three passengers on board. The flight ended in front of the fuel pumps.
The aircraft was refuelled at the pumps and took of for the discussed flight. How much fuel was on board? I don’t know.
Fact 7: Distance to be flown: 14 NM (one way) from airfield Oeringhausen to Altenbeken.
Fact 8: 4 persons on board.
Fact 9: The pilot intended to make an off airport landing which, in general, is not allowed for private pilots.
Fact 10: Wind at day of crash out of 250-10 kts
Fact 11: At the very end the pilot turns to the NE (downwind) at low to no forward airspeed and starts settling down rapidly.
Fact 12: The helicopter crashed.
Make up your own mind. I've made up mine.
Fact 1: The R44 Raven II helicopter belongs to a company called HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH
The owner of the company / aircraft is the involved pilot.
Fact 2: Heli Life International GmbH does NOT hold an AOC.
Fact 3: The above aircraft is operated under the AOC of Aero Heli International GmbH & Co. KG.
Fact 4: The pilot / owner holds a private pilot licence PPL(H) since 2007/2008.
Fact 5: At present HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH has no commercial pilot on the payroll. Maybe some freelance pilot.
Fact 6: Prior this flight the pilot conducted a sightseeing trip / pleasure flight for compensation with three passengers on board. The flight ended in front of the fuel pumps.
The aircraft was refuelled at the pumps and took of for the discussed flight. How much fuel was on board? I don’t know.
Fact 7: Distance to be flown: 14 NM (one way) from airfield Oeringhausen to Altenbeken.
Fact 8: 4 persons on board.
Fact 9: The pilot intended to make an off airport landing which, in general, is not allowed for private pilots.
Fact 10: Wind at day of crash out of 250-10 kts
Fact 11: At the very end the pilot turns to the NE (downwind) at low to no forward airspeed and starts settling down rapidly.
Fact 12: The helicopter crashed.
Make up your own mind. I've made up mine.
Now the ship is broken, the paxes are injured, i bet the insurance is lucky, cause it was "a use against the insurance rules", the prosecutor is armed and the accident board is on the run.
Due to a heavy injured starlet all the medias reporting like mad. "Helicopter flying ist dangerous" , "Robinson Helicopters are dangerous". A lot of customers calling and cancelling their helicopter rides. Thanks a lot!
Some months ago an other german R-44 crashed also while transporting paxes with a PPL. No sweet, no change.
Due to a heavy injured starlet all the medias reporting like mad. "Helicopter flying ist dangerous" , "Robinson Helicopters are dangerous". A lot of customers calling and cancelling their helicopter rides. Thanks a lot!
Some months ago an other german R-44 crashed also while transporting paxes with a PPL. No sweet, no change.
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Hear you talking tecpilot. And it was the very same AOC holding company being involved: AeroHeli.
For the rest of us: in the mentioned accident the PPL pilot flew into the tower building due to fogging windows (according to the pilot) after picking up some pedestrian on a nearby field to show the way to the airfield. The pilot wasn't able to find the airfield due to this years heavy snow falls
For the rest of us: in the mentioned accident the PPL pilot flew into the tower building due to fogging windows (according to the pilot) after picking up some pedestrian on a nearby field to show the way to the airfield. The pilot wasn't able to find the airfield due to this years heavy snow falls
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Some months ago an other german R-44 crashed also while transporting paxes with a PPL.
No, don't blame it on german helicopter pilots. Accidents often occur due to bad judgement, not lack of experience. We all suffer from bad judgement from time to time, but the intelligent ones learn from it.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured.
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ReverseFlight, I'm aware of the accident you are talking about (HFS). However I guess that Tecpilot `s point is that once more it was a private pilot doing commercial pax transport, a situation the national aviation authorities here in Germany are well aware of but don't do anything against it.
It's got nothing to do with our nationality but with the fact that on the one hand side the LBA maltreats the AOC holders but on the other hand doesn't do **** when it comes to private pilots conducting commercial work.
So Tecpilots comment / comparison was definetly appropriate.
Same problem in other European countries?
It's got nothing to do with our nationality but with the fact that on the one hand side the LBA maltreats the AOC holders but on the other hand doesn't do **** when it comes to private pilots conducting commercial work.
So Tecpilots comment / comparison was definetly appropriate.
Same problem in other European countries?
Germany probably has particular problems with prosecuting such cases because the are different authorities with different juristictions. The LBA regulates commercial air transport and commercial licensing, the counties regulate PPL and flight instruction. As the flight was by a PPL holder and the company didn´t have an AOC, it isn´t their area of juristiction, nicht wahr?
On the other hand the county authorities authorise the strangest things sometimes: such as pleasure flying events by private pilots. For example. PPL with <100 TT, 30 hours on-type doing such an event. Barking mad.
On the other hand the county authorities authorise the strangest things sometimes: such as pleasure flying events by private pilots. For example. PPL with <100 TT, 30 hours on-type doing such an event. Barking mad.
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it isn´t their area of juristiction
the counties regulate PPL
But what am I complaining about. I have to prepare tons of paper for the upcoming audit conducted by the LBA.
Last edited by Spunk; 28th Oct 2010 at 19:24.
As a PPL you are allowed to offer pleasure flights (no cost sharing, but actual money earning) on airfield events like flight shows/open days and so on. As far as I know that is the only exception for PPL holders in Germany.
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@simondlh
In Germany they call it non-commercial flights for compensation. As a private pilot you are allowed to fly around and get paid for it as long as you don't do it on a commercial basis.
Commercial basis starts when you start placing advertisement for what you do.
When you say Pleasure Flight do you mean getting paid to take tourists up?
Commercial basis starts when you start placing advertisement for what you do.
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Same problem in Denmark, we have our share of cowboys as well 
..
Personally it doesn't bother me much, if a PPL pilot give someone they have just met a tour of the sky and that pax for instance cover the full cost of that flight, despite the rules (in Denmark) says they have to be close friend or family to do that. As long as it just happen a few times a year for that PPL pilot and its done in good spirit. It could just be a genuine gesture to someone showing an interest in aviation on the local airfield, and it would be sad to see new stricter laws prohibit such enthusiasm.
But when they land within city limit without permit of the landowner and which they are not allowed to according to the CAA, when they move pax around they don't know well too often (maybe even earn on it) and some of them even advertise it (seen it happen in a local newspaper and face-book), then it bothers me. Then I report them to the authorities. Then I want them hanged out to dry.
Have reported those kinds a couple of times and I bet I will have to do it again since some of them just don't get it the first time.
Unfortunately, the CAA don't have many tools in this area beside giving a serious talk to that individual. The cowboy nearly have to put people life's in danger, before they can do more than that. Sadly.
- madman
..Personally it doesn't bother me much, if a PPL pilot give someone they have just met a tour of the sky and that pax for instance cover the full cost of that flight, despite the rules (in Denmark) says they have to be close friend or family to do that. As long as it just happen a few times a year for that PPL pilot and its done in good spirit. It could just be a genuine gesture to someone showing an interest in aviation on the local airfield, and it would be sad to see new stricter laws prohibit such enthusiasm.
But when they land within city limit without permit of the landowner and which they are not allowed to according to the CAA, when they move pax around they don't know well too often (maybe even earn on it) and some of them even advertise it (seen it happen in a local newspaper and face-book), then it bothers me. Then I report them to the authorities. Then I want them hanged out to dry.
Have reported those kinds a couple of times and I bet I will have to do it again since some of them just don't get it the first time.
Unfortunately, the CAA don't have many tools in this area beside giving a serious talk to that individual. The cowboy nearly have to put people life's in danger, before they can do more than that. Sadly.
- madman