Consequences of failed checkride
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Make sure you get enough rest the night before.
I know you can be anxious - the big day's tomorrow, I so darn want that ticket, etc. etc. all leading up to a restless night.
This lack of sleep, and the nerves of the test wear you out - I had them and I already held a ticket (from another country) when I did my FAA test. For some it's just the fear of taking a test.
I know of a guy recently in my neck of the woods who barely got 3hrs sleep the night before his ppl(h) check-ride; needless to say it affected his performance.
I know you can be anxious - the big day's tomorrow, I so darn want that ticket, etc. etc. all leading up to a restless night.
This lack of sleep, and the nerves of the test wear you out - I had them and I already held a ticket (from another country) when I did my FAA test. For some it's just the fear of taking a test.
I know of a guy recently in my neck of the woods who barely got 3hrs sleep the night before his ppl(h) check-ride; needless to say it affected his performance.
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First of all, I am surprised that the examiner did such a quick throttle roll back. The FAA has issued notices to Examiners and CFIs about this, as there are some helicopters that could under certain conditions have an actual engine shutdown because of this action.
As for FAA Inspectors, on the helicopter side for the most part, they are usually quite experienced. But you do find a few that are not. Then the checkride could get quite interesting. Fortunately, the ones I have dealt with have been quite experienced.
Which redline did you go over? The engine or rotor? If you are in autorotation with the needles split, the rotor RPM can go over the engine redline, just as long as you do not go over the rotor redline. I do know of one inspector that insisted that you could not go over the engine redline. His reason was that the engine was still running.
I would not be concerned about this checkride. No one really cares when it comes down to it. And they will never ask. Do you ask your Lawyer how many times he had to take the Bar Exam? Of course not.
As for FAA Inspectors, on the helicopter side for the most part, they are usually quite experienced. But you do find a few that are not. Then the checkride could get quite interesting. Fortunately, the ones I have dealt with have been quite experienced.
Which redline did you go over? The engine or rotor? If you are in autorotation with the needles split, the rotor RPM can go over the engine redline, just as long as you do not go over the rotor redline. I do know of one inspector that insisted that you could not go over the engine redline. His reason was that the engine was still running.
I would not be concerned about this checkride. No one really cares when it comes down to it. And they will never ask. Do you ask your Lawyer how many times he had to take the Bar Exam? Of course not.
Okay Rabidcat, if I read this right, it seems like you had two separate problems: 1) Too slow response to a throttle chop in one auto; and 2) Allowing the RRPM to get too high during a 180 auto. Both events caused the examiner to take the controls and apply corrective action. With that in mind, he quite appropriately busted you. Face it, your RPM control is...well...weak.
You keep harping on the fact that you were "tired." Aww. Hate to repeat what you already know, but the helicopter doesn't care. And frankly, being tired is no excuse. (Someone should have mentioned to you that your checkride was not going to be a simple cakewalk in the park.)
A lot of people (not saying you, specifically) think that helicopter flying is just a lark - that it's just oodles of fun!...much more so than that boring ol' so-easy fixed-wing flying. Well guess what: Helicopter flying is fatiguing. It takes intense concentration, 100% of the time. If you perceive yourself to be tired, you step up your game and compensate for that. If you allow yourself to use "I was tired" as an excuse for poor performance either on a checkride or in your general, post-certification flying, you'll end up being a poor pilot.
We who do this for a living understand. We make sure we have enough stamina to do the kind of jobs guys like Gordy do. I've had plenty of 16 to 18-hour duty days (legal in the part-91 world) when my last landing was to our uncontrolled airport out in the middle of nowhere which has such pathetic lighting - and then I have to put the helicopter on the dolly on the dark ramp. And you know what? At the end of such days I'm tired too.
So. Get some more practice with your engine-out landings (sounds like you need it). Then go back and retake the checkride and kick some examiner a**. Show him what you can do! THEN come back here and proudly announce that you're one of us now. We eagerly await that post.
You keep harping on the fact that you were "tired." Aww. Hate to repeat what you already know, but the helicopter doesn't care. And frankly, being tired is no excuse. (Someone should have mentioned to you that your checkride was not going to be a simple cakewalk in the park.)
A lot of people (not saying you, specifically) think that helicopter flying is just a lark - that it's just oodles of fun!...much more so than that boring ol' so-easy fixed-wing flying. Well guess what: Helicopter flying is fatiguing. It takes intense concentration, 100% of the time. If you perceive yourself to be tired, you step up your game and compensate for that. If you allow yourself to use "I was tired" as an excuse for poor performance either on a checkride or in your general, post-certification flying, you'll end up being a poor pilot.
We who do this for a living understand. We make sure we have enough stamina to do the kind of jobs guys like Gordy do. I've had plenty of 16 to 18-hour duty days (legal in the part-91 world) when my last landing was to our uncontrolled airport out in the middle of nowhere which has such pathetic lighting - and then I have to put the helicopter on the dolly on the dark ramp. And you know what? At the end of such days I'm tired too.
So. Get some more practice with your engine-out landings (sounds like you need it). Then go back and retake the checkride and kick some examiner a**. Show him what you can do! THEN come back here and proudly announce that you're one of us now. We eagerly await that post.
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Okay Rabidcat, if I read this right, it seems like you had two separate problems: 1) Too slow response to a throttle chop in one auto; and 2) Allowing the RRPM to get too high during a 180 auto. Both events caused the examiner to take the controls and apply corrective action. With that in mind, he quite appropriately busted you. Face it, your RPM control is...well...weak.
You keep harping on the fact that you were "tired." Aww. Hate to repeat what you already know, but the helicopter doesn't care. And frankly, being tired is no excuse. (Someone should have mentioned to you that your checkride was not going to be a simple cakewalk in the park.)
A lot of people (not saying you, specifically) think that helicopter flying is just a lark - that it's just oodles of fun!...much more so than that boring ol' so-easy fixed-wing flying. Well guess what: Helicopter flying is fatiguing. It takes intense concentration, 100% of the time. If you perceive yourself to be tired, you step up your game and compensate for that. If you allow yourself to use "I was tired" as an excuse for poor performance either on a checkride or in your general, post-certification flying, you'll end up being a poor pilot.
We who do this for a living understand. We make sure we have enough stamina to do the kind of jobs guys like Gordy do. I've had plenty of 16 to 18-hour duty days (legal in the part-91 world) when my last landing was to our uncontrolled airport out in the middle of nowhere which has such pathetic lighting - and then I have to put the helicopter on the dolly on the dark ramp. And you know what? At the end of such days I'm tired too.
So. Get some more practice with your engine-out landings (sounds like you need it). Then go back and retake the checkride and kick some examiner a**. Show him what you can do! THEN come back here and proudly announce that you're one of us now. We eagerly await that p
You keep harping on the fact that you were "tired." Aww. Hate to repeat what you already know, but the helicopter doesn't care. And frankly, being tired is no excuse. (Someone should have mentioned to you that your checkride was not going to be a simple cakewalk in the park.)
A lot of people (not saying you, specifically) think that helicopter flying is just a lark - that it's just oodles of fun!...much more so than that boring ol' so-easy fixed-wing flying. Well guess what: Helicopter flying is fatiguing. It takes intense concentration, 100% of the time. If you perceive yourself to be tired, you step up your game and compensate for that. If you allow yourself to use "I was tired" as an excuse for poor performance either on a checkride or in your general, post-certification flying, you'll end up being a poor pilot.
We who do this for a living understand. We make sure we have enough stamina to do the kind of jobs guys like Gordy do. I've had plenty of 16 to 18-hour duty days (legal in the part-91 world) when my last landing was to our uncontrolled airport out in the middle of nowhere which has such pathetic lighting - and then I have to put the helicopter on the dolly on the dark ramp. And you know what? At the end of such days I'm tired too.
So. Get some more practice with your engine-out landings (sounds like you need it). Then go back and retake the checkride and kick some examiner a**. Show him what you can do! THEN come back here and proudly announce that you're one of us now. We eagerly await that p
Where are your shortcomings as a pilot?
How did any of you build up the stamina to fly the hours you currently fly?
Do you by chance have the fh1100 pilot blog?
As a pilot do you not accept being tired as a factor? I actually think my RPM control is pretty good most of the time... I just got a little sloppy on that 180.
You've already learned a tough lesson: You can't be "average," ever, especially on a checkride. You have to be the absolute best you can be, 100% of the time. If you're tired, compensate for it. It's what the pro's do.
The good news is that no one will ever know you busted the checkride. When you and your instructor feel that you're ready, do it again.
And pass it next time, dammit! You know you can.
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Stamina comes with practice, and with experience you will learn the "CUES" of when you are getting tired and you then monitor yourself to prevent accidents. It sounds a bit odd I know, but you learn to see the first link in the chain and then slow down to make sure you don't rush into any mistakes.
For an insight into how to be a proffessional go to pilotpsy dot com, it really turned my career around and made me a MUCH better North sea captain.
Good luck, chin up and always do you best
Si
For an insight into how to be a proffessional go to pilotpsy dot com, it really turned my career around and made me a MUCH better North sea captain.
Good luck, chin up and always do you best
Si
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In an R22 there certainly is quite a force on the collective imparted from the check pilot who has to overcome the throttle friction. It's always wise to establish whether that will be an impediment or confusing to the trainee or not first.
To get around that, one could always go through the routine a little differently, but always only after the warning that at all times one has to be prepared etc, and discuss whether;
1) there is enough airspeed to help RRPM recovery if necessary,
2) we are safe to reach an area,
3) cover the collective with left hand,
4) say "throttle in overide check" as the switches go off with the right hand and straight back to cover the cyclic if necessary.
Next time just kill the switches. Forget about being tired, especially when the subject is tired or wound up is a good time, then you know that he/she will/can respond anytime.
In a 47, non turbo of course so one doesn't root the turbo, during the silence one can usually have some time to discuss the subjects heritage for a while before taking over, if it's a bit slow working it out.
To get around that, one could always go through the routine a little differently, but always only after the warning that at all times one has to be prepared etc, and discuss whether;
1) there is enough airspeed to help RRPM recovery if necessary,
2) we are safe to reach an area,
3) cover the collective with left hand,
4) say "throttle in overide check" as the switches go off with the right hand and straight back to cover the cyclic if necessary.
Next time just kill the switches. Forget about being tired, especially when the subject is tired or wound up is a good time, then you know that he/she will/can respond anytime.
In a 47, non turbo of course so one doesn't root the turbo, during the silence one can usually have some time to discuss the subjects heritage for a while before taking over, if it's a bit slow working it out.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It helps to put this in perspective. When the engine fails in a helicopter, there is only one "memory" action required to avoid the impending disaster - lowering the collective and entering autorotation. It follows that you must (a) achieve this without decaying the RRPM beyond recovery, and (b) not screwing the main rotor off on the way down with a massive overspeed. The importance of (b) can vary slightly with aircraft type and instructor, but (a) is always a given.
Now all helicopters can increase your level of excitement and provide you with amusing lights and horns during system failures, but very few things will kill you as definitely and assuredly as not entering autorotation correctly following an engine failure. To put this back in perspective for you, your instructor is simply giving you another opportunity to demonstrate that the single most important emergency drill in a helicopter is ingrained in your memory and can be recalled and executed safely and consistently.
Now ask yourself what tiredness has to do with this drill (nothing) and how fast the throttle chop matters (not a bit) and more importantly, could you ever envisage yourself flying in a similar state of fatigue operationally (probably yes). The only score you will get if it happens for real are you versus gravity, so take another chance to understand how critical this is, learn from your instructor's feedback and nail it next time, and next time, and next time and every time.
Now all helicopters can increase your level of excitement and provide you with amusing lights and horns during system failures, but very few things will kill you as definitely and assuredly as not entering autorotation correctly following an engine failure. To put this back in perspective for you, your instructor is simply giving you another opportunity to demonstrate that the single most important emergency drill in a helicopter is ingrained in your memory and can be recalled and executed safely and consistently.
Now ask yourself what tiredness has to do with this drill (nothing) and how fast the throttle chop matters (not a bit) and more importantly, could you ever envisage yourself flying in a similar state of fatigue operationally (probably yes). The only score you will get if it happens for real are you versus gravity, so take another chance to understand how critical this is, learn from your instructor's feedback and nail it next time, and next time, and next time and every time.
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I replied to rabidcat in a PM and he has asked me to post that reply on here, he thinks others might find ituseful and if they do then great.
I will start with the end result, I am a calmer and more confident pilot, because I approach work in a more proffessional manner I am retaining more information and crucially understanding that information better. You have a choice to make, do you want to be a PPL and purely have fun or do you want to be a professional? If you want to only be a PPL just be safe and have fun, adopt a safety attitude and that will be enough. If you want to be a proffessional take that safety attitude to the next level and be calm and thorough at all times. It isn't easy at first, but with practice it gets easier. I think of my "hero" at work who I want to emulate and consider what they would do when I need to make decisions.
My situation was due to a lack of training at work and being restricted to a glorified autopilot, so when I came to command training I didn't have the key skills in place. I had to learn 5 years worth of training in 3 months, and pilotpsy along with a CRM(I) course helped turned my outlook from a bolshy happy go lucky to what a true professional should be. If you are in any doubt find a CRM course as it is a useful tool even for single pilot ops, it teaches you to deal with others in an aviation environment no tjust the cockpit.
In short the only person who can make the difference is you, and it isn't easy but take a long hard look at yourself and compare yourself to sam on pilotpsy and change if you can. Just remember thought CAN change behaviour, it did for me.
Good luck
Si
I will start with the end result, I am a calmer and more confident pilot, because I approach work in a more proffessional manner I am retaining more information and crucially understanding that information better. You have a choice to make, do you want to be a PPL and purely have fun or do you want to be a professional? If you want to only be a PPL just be safe and have fun, adopt a safety attitude and that will be enough. If you want to be a proffessional take that safety attitude to the next level and be calm and thorough at all times. It isn't easy at first, but with practice it gets easier. I think of my "hero" at work who I want to emulate and consider what they would do when I need to make decisions.
My situation was due to a lack of training at work and being restricted to a glorified autopilot, so when I came to command training I didn't have the key skills in place. I had to learn 5 years worth of training in 3 months, and pilotpsy along with a CRM(I) course helped turned my outlook from a bolshy happy go lucky to what a true professional should be. If you are in any doubt find a CRM course as it is a useful tool even for single pilot ops, it teaches you to deal with others in an aviation environment no tjust the cockpit.
In short the only person who can make the difference is you, and it isn't easy but take a long hard look at yourself and compare yourself to sam on pilotpsy and change if you can. Just remember thought CAN change behaviour, it did for me.
Good luck
Si
