The Rotary Nostalgia Thread
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Last two letters suggest G-BEID?
San Francisco Helicopter Airlines S61N Mk II N317Y (later to become the 'Venerable BEID' of British Airways renown) at San Francisco International Airport on 25th September 1970 (Photo: Frank Hudson)
Many hours flying this old bird at Dollar. Never saw her in that paint scheme though - just the standard Dollar white with Blood & Custard stripes.
Bell 206B JetRanger II G-AYMW (as flown by 902Jon) at Gloucester Staverton Airport on 17th March 1988 (Photo: Keith C. Wilson)
And there I was thinking that the Brits were keen on rhubarb and custard!
More Gaz ..
SA341H Gazelle of the Slovenian Air Force at Ljubljana on 23rd February 1993 (Photo: Fred Willemsen)
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And SL-HAA's final base after turbulent years of service
Park voja?ke zgodovine
Btw, the present exhibit is actually composed of at least two different machines
Park voja?ke zgodovine
Btw, the present exhibit is actually composed of at least two different machines
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A very interesting picture of N317Y Sav as it has external sponson floats which I always thought were a North Sea modification. If this picture is pre North Sea (which it must be) I wonder why it had the floats fitted?
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EI-BJR 1980 Irish Helicopters
G-AYMW was operated for a while by Irish Helicopters in 1980 as EI-BJR. Note Irish Helicopters sticker on the door. Registration records list it as being registered to Irish Helicopters while all Denis Ferrantis' machines were registered to Helicopter Maintenance Ltd. Perhaps there was a link as Savoia suggested, I'm sure it will surface in time. 
Last edited by Shane101; 21st Apr 2013 at 16:30.
Thread Starter
Terminus Mos: It is, as Heli1 has said, due to the fact that SFO's routes criss-crossed the San Francisco bay area and, although their trips were typically only around 10mins in duration, most of that time would be spent over water.
Regarding the sponsons being a North Sea modification .. you may wish to consider the following:
As the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union developed, the Soviet Navy had elected to construct a fleet of over 200 submarines, the US Navy chose to counter this threat by investing in newer and increasingly capable ASW technologies and platforms, in particular the Sikorsky Sea King. In 1957, Sikorsky was awarded a contract to develop an all-weather amphibious helicopter for the US Navy. The new helicopter would excel at anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and would combine the roles of hunter and killer (previously these had to be performed by two separate helicopters). The key features of the emerging ASW helicopter would include its amphibious hull for landing on the water, and its twin-turboshaft engines that enabled a larger, heavier and well-equipped aircraft than prior helicopters.
The first prototype took flight for the first time in March 1959. Carrier suitability trials were conducted on board the USS Lake Champlain; the trials were completed successfully in mid-1961. Production deliveries of the HSS-2 (later designated SH-3A) to the US Navy began in September 1961, these initial production aircraft were each powered by a pair of General Electric T58 turboshaft engines.
The very first Sea King prototype XHSS-2 demonstrates its capability of landing on water in March 1959
The amphibious design of the Sea King's lower fuselage, including sponsons, can be clearly seen in this Iranian Navy example
Sikorsky were quick to develop a commercial model of the Sea King resulting in the first flight of the S-61L on 2 November 1961. It was 4 ft 3 in (1.30 m) longer than the HSS-2 and could carry a greater payload. Initial production S-61Ls were powered by two 1350shp (1005 kW) GE CT58-140 turboshafts, the civil version of the T58. The S-61L featured a modified landing gear without the sponsons. Los Angeles Airways was the first civil operator of the S-61 introducing them on 11th March 1962. At that time a new S61 cost USD 650,000.
On 7th August 1962 the S-61N made its first flight. Otherwise identical to the S-61L, this version was optimised for overwater operations by retaining the SH-3's sponsons. Both the S-61L and S-61N were subsequently updated to Mk II standard with improvements including more powerful CT58-110 engines giving better hot and high performance, vibration damping and other refinements.
I had an interesting discussion, oh many years ago now, with a friend of mine from the Ukraine who (literally) swore that the Russian Mi-14 was the first truly amphibious helicopter and that Sikorsky had 'poached' the idea from the Mil factory. Aside from the fact that there are very few Western aircraft which have been inspired from Russian/Soviet designs this claim was simply factually inaccurate!
The Mi-14 (from every reliable source I know) is not credited with having been developed until about the mid-60's while (as you can see from above) the Sea King was quite literally 'in the water' in early 1959. I suspect my freind may have been leaning on the Mi-14's developmental airframe (which was an Mi-8) which, although designed a year before the Sea King flew, did not itself fly until 1961. (Even then .. this was not the amphibious version).
The Mi-14 during waterborne trials in the mid-60's
The Mi-14's amphibious hull in evidence in the Polish Air Force example
Another amphibious 'hulled' aircraft (in which Sikorsky were involved) was Sud Aviation's Super Frelon.
However, when you mention the 61, sponsons and the North Sea .. yes .. you are correct in that for an appreciable period of time the S61N was synonymous with North Sea operations .. with Bristows, British Airways and British Caledonian all using them .. and others too!
And just in case you think it was only test pilots and the military who engaged in water landings ..
A KLM S61N PH-NZA during water landing and taxiing exercises
Several civilian operators (not just KLM) would regularly carry-out water landings for training purposes.
Regarding the sponsons being a North Sea modification .. you may wish to consider the following:
As the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union developed, the Soviet Navy had elected to construct a fleet of over 200 submarines, the US Navy chose to counter this threat by investing in newer and increasingly capable ASW technologies and platforms, in particular the Sikorsky Sea King. In 1957, Sikorsky was awarded a contract to develop an all-weather amphibious helicopter for the US Navy. The new helicopter would excel at anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and would combine the roles of hunter and killer (previously these had to be performed by two separate helicopters). The key features of the emerging ASW helicopter would include its amphibious hull for landing on the water, and its twin-turboshaft engines that enabled a larger, heavier and well-equipped aircraft than prior helicopters.
The first prototype took flight for the first time in March 1959. Carrier suitability trials were conducted on board the USS Lake Champlain; the trials were completed successfully in mid-1961. Production deliveries of the HSS-2 (later designated SH-3A) to the US Navy began in September 1961, these initial production aircraft were each powered by a pair of General Electric T58 turboshaft engines.
The very first Sea King prototype XHSS-2 demonstrates its capability of landing on water in March 1959
The amphibious design of the Sea King's lower fuselage, including sponsons, can be clearly seen in this Iranian Navy example
Sikorsky were quick to develop a commercial model of the Sea King resulting in the first flight of the S-61L on 2 November 1961. It was 4 ft 3 in (1.30 m) longer than the HSS-2 and could carry a greater payload. Initial production S-61Ls were powered by two 1350shp (1005 kW) GE CT58-140 turboshafts, the civil version of the T58. The S-61L featured a modified landing gear without the sponsons. Los Angeles Airways was the first civil operator of the S-61 introducing them on 11th March 1962. At that time a new S61 cost USD 650,000.
On 7th August 1962 the S-61N made its first flight. Otherwise identical to the S-61L, this version was optimised for overwater operations by retaining the SH-3's sponsons. Both the S-61L and S-61N were subsequently updated to Mk II standard with improvements including more powerful CT58-110 engines giving better hot and high performance, vibration damping and other refinements.
I had an interesting discussion, oh many years ago now, with a friend of mine from the Ukraine who (literally) swore that the Russian Mi-14 was the first truly amphibious helicopter and that Sikorsky had 'poached' the idea from the Mil factory. Aside from the fact that there are very few Western aircraft which have been inspired from Russian/Soviet designs this claim was simply factually inaccurate!
The Mi-14 (from every reliable source I know) is not credited with having been developed until about the mid-60's while (as you can see from above) the Sea King was quite literally 'in the water' in early 1959. I suspect my freind may have been leaning on the Mi-14's developmental airframe (which was an Mi-8) which, although designed a year before the Sea King flew, did not itself fly until 1961. (Even then .. this was not the amphibious version).
The Mi-14 during waterborne trials in the mid-60's
The Mi-14's amphibious hull in evidence in the Polish Air Force example
Another amphibious 'hulled' aircraft (in which Sikorsky were involved) was Sud Aviation's Super Frelon.
However, when you mention the 61, sponsons and the North Sea .. yes .. you are correct in that for an appreciable period of time the S61N was synonymous with North Sea operations .. with Bristows, British Airways and British Caledonian all using them .. and others too!
And just in case you think it was only test pilots and the military who engaged in water landings ..
A KLM S61N PH-NZA during water landing and taxiing exercises
Several civilian operators (not just KLM) would regularly carry-out water landings for training purposes.
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Thanks Sav. I used to fly the S-61N. The floats were not standard fit on the Mk II sponson (per the picture of NZA) but were fitted on the North Sea after Lee Smith's ditching, I believe.
If you look at the picture of N317Y it seems to have the skinny Sea King sponsons with pop out floats, rather than the broad S61NII sponsons. I was always under the impression that the S61NII had broader sponsons to give stability without having to plumb for and have the extra weight of the pop-outs. The Sea King needed minimum width for onboard stowage in the ship's hangar so pop-outs were the solution after the prototypes were shown to have minimal lateral stability.
I amazed to see the film of the KLM S61 not just land on but shut down during the abandon drill: just think of the OH & S cr@pola that would surround such an exercise today
Not that the pop outs did much anyway for Sea King/S61 stability, this was SS2 with a long swell:
I amazed to see the film of the KLM S61 not just land on but shut down during the abandon drill: just think of the OH & S cr@pola that would surround such an exercise today
Not that the pop outs did much anyway for Sea King/S61 stability, this was SS2 with a long swell:
Thread Starter
Terminus: If you are talking about the pop-outs fitted to the sides of the sponsons .. then I wouldn't have a clue as I simply don't know when these came out. But, I also note (and perhaps this is what you were referring to) that the SFO craft had them fitted back in 1970.
If you have any photos from your 61 days .. t'would be grand to see them!
Re: John's upturned Sea King .. I was told this possibility is why some Sea Kings/S61's were fitted with a 'zig-zag' of rope around the hull .. so that you could heave yourself upon the craft's keel (if the raft didn't function) while awaiting rescue!
If you have any photos from your 61 days .. t'would be grand to see them!
Re: John's upturned Sea King .. I was told this possibility is why some Sea Kings/S61's were fitted with a 'zig-zag' of rope around the hull .. so that you could heave yourself upon the craft's keel (if the raft didn't function) while awaiting rescue!
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As a matter of possible interest our S62A in Doha had pop out floats built into the floats. Only one S62 ditched in my time, 1974, about 200 yards after take off. Happily floated a few miles out to sea as being a Friday all the rescue boats, all one of them, were at the sailing club!
Thread Starter
We've seen a few 'Bells along the Thames' including Helipixman's photo of Tommy Sopwith's Bell 206 (G-BASE) seen along the Embankment in 1973 as well as some 'Rayner Rangers' (see page 96) and now this visitor from the Far East:
Maritime Safety Agency of Japan Bell 212 JA9684 aboard the Patrol Vessel Yashima moored in the Pool of London along the River Thames next to HMS Belfast on 8th October 1989 (Photo: Martin Pole)
In April 2000 the Maritime Safety Agency of Japan was renamed the Japan Coast Guard.
~ ~ ~
With thanks to photographer Martin Pole, this being his first contribution to the thread.
Per Elipix: Elipix, if you are reading .. please note that your image of G-BASE on page 34 is currently down.
Maritime Safety Agency of Japan Bell 212 JA9684 aboard the Patrol Vessel Yashima moored in the Pool of London along the River Thames next to HMS Belfast on 8th October 1989 (Photo: Martin Pole)
In April 2000 the Maritime Safety Agency of Japan was renamed the Japan Coast Guard.
~ ~ ~
With thanks to photographer Martin Pole, this being his first contribution to the thread.
Per Elipix: Elipix, if you are reading .. please note that your image of G-BASE on page 34 is currently down.
Thread Starter
Royal Navy Hiller UH-12E HT2 XS165 as seen at RNAS Yeovilton on 6th September 1969 (Photo: RA Scholefield)
This craft was a member of 705 Training Squadron based at RNAS Culdrose.
Another great 'Historic Hiller' shot .. of 165's sister-ship .. 163 .. on page 58.
Both XS163 and XS165 were not in my logbook with 705NAS in early 1969, but my first (helicopter) solo was flying 42/XS166 in March of that year.
Not me next to the trusty steed, but another contributor to Rotorheads
On the same sunny Cornish dispersal in April 1969 was this Whirlwind HAS7, no idea of the number:
Not me next to the trusty steed, but another contributor to Rotorheads
On the same sunny Cornish dispersal in April 1969 was this Whirlwind HAS7, no idea of the number:
I had the pleasure of working on XS166 after it's demob in the mid 90's. It was re-registered as G-BDOI and flew for Management Farm Services at Cambridge. Last heard of as HA-MIJ.
XS163 was written off in 1969 and XS165 became G-BEFX then SX-HEC and was writen off in 1991.
XS163 was written off in 1969 and XS165 became G-BEFX then SX-HEC and was writen off in 1991.
Thread Starter
John/Eric: Great stuff!
John: To what role then were 163 and 165 assigned in 1969, do you happen to know?
You will have to provide us with some clues (perhaps a story of his misdeeds) as to whom it is that poses with 166! 
Also, did Army and Naval flyers ever compare notes in those days (obviously they must have) .. I would be interested to know what opinions (if any) existed between Army drivers learning on the Sioux and those in the Navy learning on the Hiller .. or was it 'much of muchness'?
John: To what role then were 163 and 165 assigned in 1969, do you happen to know?
Not me next to the trusty steed, but another contributor to Rotorheads!
Also, did Army and Naval flyers ever compare notes in those days (obviously they must have) .. I would be interested to know what opinions (if any) existed between Army drivers learning on the Sioux and those in the Navy learning on the Hiller .. or was it 'much of muchness'?
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WW7 Memories
I can remember being winched out of the sea on completion of my WDD by Boss Spelling (CO of Brawdy SAR) off St Davids in Pembrokeshire. Such was the marginal performance of the WW7 that even though I was then a mere 14 stone (happy days) reeling me in actually wound the aircraft down into the sea so with my nerves frayed and the front wheels submerged I was unceremoniously dragged from the oggin.
G.
G.