Military helicopters used in civil roles?
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Military helicopters used in civil roles?
Having watched Ned's firefighting thread (which is awesome, BTW
), following question sprang to my mind. Under which rules can military types, like Cobra, or Blackhawk be operated in firefighting role by, what I presume, civ commercial operators? They don't have a civvy type certificate, which, I thought, would be necessary for that. Or do they? Also, how can one get a Cobra type rating in his FAA CPL? 
), following question sprang to my mind. Under which rules can military types, like Cobra, or Blackhawk be operated in firefighting role by, what I presume, civ commercial operators? They don't have a civvy type certificate, which, I thought, would be necessary for that. Or do they? Also, how can one get a Cobra type rating in his FAA CPL?
Last edited by Stuck_in_an_ATR; 22nd Apr 2010 at 07:30. Reason: Edited thread title, to make more sense... :-)
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In Germany (and other European countries) it is very easy...
If the state declares an emergency situation (catastrophe) , the forces can support in fire fighting (e.g. "Heide-Feuer"), Transportation of sling load ("Oder-Tide"), transportation of PAX ("Hiddensee") etc....
In Germany, all military pilots are trained following civil rules (with a higher standard, of course)...
If the state declares an emergency situation (catastrophe) , the forces can support in fire fighting (e.g. "Heide-Feuer"), Transportation of sling load ("Oder-Tide"), transportation of PAX ("Hiddensee") etc....
In Germany, all military pilots are trained following civil rules (with a higher standard, of course)...
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in Croatia they (Government) don't even need to declare state of emergency.
Air Force is doing SAR, HEMS and Firefighting.
But if you want civilian license, no sir, you cant get it...
Air Force is doing SAR, HEMS and Firefighting.
But if you want civilian license, no sir, you cant get it...
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Well, that's the question I am asking - how come you have a civil-registered Cobra doing Fire Fighting on "normal" basis, not some state of emergency... To illustrate my point, I repost Ned's photo below (hope he won't mind)
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Thatīs not a military aircraft....
It HAS been a military designed/built(maybe used) Helo-but now itīs just a "normal" civilian helicopter....
In Austria, the company "Red Bull" owns a civil registered Cobra-for air shows etc.
There are several places all over the world where you can get the type rating on cobras.....if you are willing to pay for it...
It HAS been a military designed/built(maybe used) Helo-but now itīs just a "normal" civilian helicopter....
In Austria, the company "Red Bull" owns a civil registered Cobra-for air shows etc.
There are several places all over the world where you can get the type rating on cobras.....if you are willing to pay for it...
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Mmmm ...
I am not sure you actually NEED a type rating (in the USA) to fly the civilianised 'cobra'.
As said above ... its MTOW is below 12,500 lbs .... only seats 2 and is (I believe ?) only certified in the 'restricted category' for aerial work only.
All you would legally need would be a pilot certificate with a 'Rotorcraft - Helicopter' rating.
I am not sure you actually NEED a type rating (in the USA) to fly the civilianised 'cobra'.
As said above ... its MTOW is below 12,500 lbs .... only seats 2 and is (I believe ?) only certified in the 'restricted category' for aerial work only.
All you would legally need would be a pilot certificate with a 'Rotorcraft - Helicopter' rating.
That is a USFS cobra...hence still operated by the government. There are hundreds of Hueys operating on fires as restricted category being operated by civilian pilots, I fly one.
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Actually, the pictured Cobra, is NOT a USFS aircraft. It belongs to the Florida Department of Forestry. And is operated by them. It does not have a 'normal' airworthiness certificate. I believe it is a restricted airworthiness certificate. The reason on that is that this aircraft and others like it, that are operated by government agencies operate under 'Public Use'. Which is a whole different kettle of fish. Legally the aircraft doesn't need a registration, an airworthiness certificate or any inspections. the pilots operating under these regs do not need a medical or pilots certificate. In reality these agencies DO require pilot medical and pilot certificates and do inspections on these aircraft.
Typically these aircraft are what they call bailed aircraft. When they are declared surplus, DOD first offers them to friendly nations, then other Federal agencies, then state governments and finally on surplus sales. The prices state agencies pay range from 1 USD to several thousand.
Typically these aircraft are what they call bailed aircraft. When they are declared surplus, DOD first offers them to friendly nations, then other Federal agencies, then state governments and finally on surplus sales. The prices state agencies pay range from 1 USD to several thousand.
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There is at least one AH-1S operating as a private aircraft in Oregon. In fact, Northwest Helicopters has one for sale. By FAA regulation once FAA registered it can only be put into either Experimental-Exhibition ( or some other category in Experimental) or Type Certificated in Restricted if the owner wants to get thoroughly involved in FAA bureaucracy. If a Cobra is owned or loaned to a public agency it is not required to be either FAA registered or even have an Airworthiness Certificate. Some agencies have internal requirements to do so, and most agencies will get heavily involved in ICAP or other program to insure the aircraft is safe.
There are a lot of surplus aircraft in public agencies. Oklahoma has an OH-58 as well as a Beech Queen Air (U-8) in their stable. Georgia has a UH-1H for fire fighting and Border Patrol has 6-7 UH-1H's.
There are a lot of surplus aircraft in public agencies. Oklahoma has an OH-58 as well as a Beech Queen Air (U-8) in their stable. Georgia has a UH-1H for fire fighting and Border Patrol has 6-7 UH-1H's.
Rick---
Not according to the FAA registry, unless I got the number wrong. Although I also thought it was owned by FL DOF.
N130FC is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 76-22694 Type Registration Government
Manufacturer Name BELL Certificate Issue Date 09/16/1999
Model 209 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Rotorcraft Type Engine Turbo-shaft
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50075661
MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO
Registered Owner
Name USDA FOREST SERVICE FEPP
Street 3282 CAPITAL CIR SW
City TALLAHASSEE State FLORIDA
County LEON Zip Code 32310-8723
Country UNITED STATES
Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer Unknown Classification Unknown
Engine Model Unknown Category None
A/W Date None
Actually, the pictured Cobra, is NOT a USFS aircraft.
N130FC is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 76-22694 Type Registration Government
Manufacturer Name BELL Certificate Issue Date 09/16/1999
Model 209 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Rotorcraft Type Engine Turbo-shaft
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50075661
MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO
Registered Owner
Name USDA FOREST SERVICE FEPP
Street 3282 CAPITAL CIR SW
City TALLAHASSEE State FLORIDA
County LEON Zip Code 32310-8723
Country UNITED STATES
Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer Unknown Classification Unknown
Engine Model Unknown Category None
A/W Date None
Last edited by Gordy; 22nd Apr 2010 at 16:15.
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Some authorities in the past have allowed civilian use under a "Permit to Fly".
Our restricted Huey is currently down in Mexico on fire contract--it flies with a crew of firefighters down there---they do not care about the "restricted category".
