Helicopters & age
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
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From: England & Scotland
Helicopters & age
I am interested in finding out the age profile of small helicopters (piston and turbine up to EC120 / B206 size). I am trying to look at the likely life, or life before & after major overhaul. This analysis is for use in UK for the purpose of depreciation allowance for tax - though data on helicopter based anywhere in the world would be welcome & useful.
Does anyone know if this kind of material is available somewhere, or would it be for me to ask for responses to this email?
Thanks
Does anyone know if this kind of material is available somewhere, or would it be for me to ask for responses to this email?
Thanks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 127
Likes: 2
From: Goathland
Hi, John.
This depends upon wether it is classed as a long life or short life asset, my Bell-47 is classed as a short life assest as it was under 100K (or so I was told by HMRC), so can be written off quickly (well, sort of)
Having said that I have spent around 35K on it with engine and gearbox O/H etc for the 50 or so hours I have flown it...
Kev.
This depends upon wether it is classed as a long life or short life asset, my Bell-47 is classed as a short life assest as it was under 100K (or so I was told by HMRC), so can be written off quickly (well, sort of)
Having said that I have spent around 35K on it with engine and gearbox O/H etc for the 50 or so hours I have flown it...
Kev.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 231
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From: US
I've heard that the F28 series are pretty economic so you may want to try and include that in your study.
Most of the agents/vendors will give you operating costs as well as the maintenance schedule and approx. cost for overhauls.
Most of the agents/vendors will give you operating costs as well as the maintenance schedule and approx. cost for overhauls.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
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From: England & Scotland
Thanks for the responses.
This is, as Kevin surmises, to do with UK tax allowances. We have a new rule which restricts the value of capital allowances if the asset has an economic life over a certain period. HMRC say they have agreed with the Aviation Industry" that aircraft have a life over this limit and therefore they get only very small tax allowances.
But this agreement was brokered with owners / operators of large tin tubes - not GA and light commercial helicopters.
HMRC try to apply this "Aviation Agreement" to everyone and I have helped one Robinson owner to resist and to get a more sensible deal. I want to see if there is a way to analyse by make / model what a sensible life expectency is in practice - i.e. not simply what the maker says.
For that reason, I don't need operator costs or the capital depreciation included in financial models (eg for leasing).
Could I go to (for example) the CAA for date of first registration of all Schweizer 300's? Is there a database available (free) online?
Thanks for any help
This is, as Kevin surmises, to do with UK tax allowances. We have a new rule which restricts the value of capital allowances if the asset has an economic life over a certain period. HMRC say they have agreed with the Aviation Industry" that aircraft have a life over this limit and therefore they get only very small tax allowances.
But this agreement was brokered with owners / operators of large tin tubes - not GA and light commercial helicopters.
HMRC try to apply this "Aviation Agreement" to everyone and I have helped one Robinson owner to resist and to get a more sensible deal. I want to see if there is a way to analyse by make / model what a sensible life expectency is in practice - i.e. not simply what the maker says.
For that reason, I don't need operator costs or the capital depreciation included in financial models (eg for leasing).
Could I go to (for example) the CAA for date of first registration of all Schweizer 300's? Is there a database available (free) online?
Thanks for any help
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Active civil fleet average ages:
JetRanger = 28.6 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 28.7)
MD500 = 27.3 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 25.8)
EC120 = 6.4 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 6.6)
Average across all three types = 25.4 years worldwide (UK = 23.3)
I/C
JetRanger = 28.6 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 28.7)
MD500 = 27.3 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 25.8)
EC120 = 6.4 years worldwide (UK fleet av. = 6.6)
Average across all three types = 25.4 years worldwide (UK = 23.3)
I/C
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
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From: England & Scotland
I started playing with G-INFO last night. Began with R22 - over 600 on the database so it will take me a while to compile stats. Does G-INFO record details of aircraft that are destroyed or lost? So far (I reviewed 75 records last night) I could not see any that were taken out of service - one or two with slightly overdue CofA but that is all.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 3
From: Escrick York england
john
i believe the hmrc accept robinsons as short term assets because of the 10/12 or 2200 hour lifespan
all 300 500 120 600 ect dont have such and are long life assets
i had lots of pain with my 600 and 480 it was 6 % then and when delivered new it lost a fortune so anyone seling in year 1 or 2 had to wait years to get back their allowances back as it was not final ballence on sale like cars you had the 6% write down allowance each year until you reached your figure
send pm if you want to talk
i believe the hmrc accept robinsons as short term assets because of the 10/12 or 2200 hour lifespan
all 300 500 120 600 ect dont have such and are long life assets
i had lots of pain with my 600 and 480 it was 6 % then and when delivered new it lost a fortune so anyone seling in year 1 or 2 had to wait years to get back their allowances back as it was not final ballence on sale like cars you had the 6% write down allowance each year until you reached your figure
send pm if you want to talk
