New Chinese Helicopter
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Linköping, Sweden
New Chinese Helicopter
The AC313 is set to achieve its maiden flight in a few weeks: Copter set to fly for 1st time -- Shanghai Daily | ???? -- English Window to China New
The helicopter looks remarkably similar to the Super Frelon:
The helicopter looks remarkably similar to the Super Frelon:
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Moscow, Russia
I am sure you know that China produce Frelon under licence from Eurocopter (called Changhe Z8) so if they make new helicopter it will be copy of Frelon.
However, it would be much better if China buy Mi17 from Russia.
However, it would be much better if China buy Mi17 from Russia.
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: UK
Correction Muscovite.....the Chinese rebuild Super Frelons as they have never been able to master the complex transmission and dynamics to manufacture new aircraft.They bought 13 from Aerospataile plus some spares .
It will be interesting to see how the new version is powered .
It will be interesting to see how the new version is powered .
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: US
Heli1 - You hit the nail on the head.
As I understand it this project is only possible because of advances in Chinese engine technology and this blog begins by admitting the same: http://peterpeng210.********.com/200...dium-lift.html
HM
As I understand it this project is only possible because of advances in Chinese engine technology and this blog begins by admitting the same: http://peterpeng210.********.com/200...dium-lift.html
HM
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
I'd be surprised if it was powered by indigenous donks, at least for the foreseeable future. Engine technology has proven a problematic area for China (the protracted WS-10 being a case in point) and turboshafts are no exception.
I suspect the initial aircraft will be powered by PT6B-67s 'reclaimed' from Z-8Fs, with later aircraft powered either by the Ardiden 3 - recently selected for the Z-15 - or an 'indigenous' engine ("WZ-9") based on the TV3-117VMA/VK2500.
I suspect the initial aircraft will be powered by PT6B-67s 'reclaimed' from Z-8Fs, with later aircraft powered either by the Ardiden 3 - recently selected for the Z-15 - or an 'indigenous' engine ("WZ-9") based on the TV3-117VMA/VK2500.
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From: Moscow, Russia
Dear Mr Lt. Fubar
This is very funny foto. Of course you know we are not flying this in Russia. This pictur is because American film budget small.
Dear Mr Arrakis
I suggest China to keep buying Mi17 - better than Frelon. Perhaps know that company making new Chinese helicopter [Avicopter] is talking to us (Mil factory) about co-production in China for Mi17 which much better idea.
This AC313 maybe looking like Mi38 but Mi38 is new technology helicopter and is far in front of AC313 but we are not prepared to enter co-production of this helicopter in China at this time. But Mi17 serve China requrment very well.
This is very funny foto. Of course you know we are not flying this in Russia. This pictur is because American film budget small.
Dear Mr Arrakis
I suggest China to keep buying Mi17 - better than Frelon. Perhaps know that company making new Chinese helicopter [Avicopter] is talking to us (Mil factory) about co-production in China for Mi17 which much better idea.
This AC313 maybe looking like Mi38 but Mi38 is new technology helicopter and is far in front of AC313 but we are not prepared to enter co-production of this helicopter in China at this time. But Mi17 serve China requrment very well.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: UK
The clue is in the rotor.. All Russian and most European designed helicopters have the rotor turning clockwise looking from the top. Americans have them turning anti-clockwise. The Super Frelon, even though it was designed by Sud Aviation in France uses the S64 transmission and rotor drive. I remember the first batch of them sitting at Marignan awaiting US govenment approval for their export.
The three view illustration looks pretty official, therefore should be correct, so the chances are that is is a development or redesign of the Z8.
Why do the rotors go different ways. The same reason why European piston engines propellers predominately turn clockwise viewed from the front, Americans, anti-clockwise.
All engines turn the same way (clockwise) but the Europeans left the engine in the normal position and mounted the propeller on the front of the crankshaft. The Americans, on the other hand mounted their propeller on the power take off position on the rear of the crankshaft in the same way as clutches and gearboxes. The result is that the engine it is mounted back-to-front in European eyes and the propellor goes the wrong way.
When the first helicopters were designed their rotors went, naturally, the same way as their predecessors propellers.
The three view illustration looks pretty official, therefore should be correct, so the chances are that is is a development or redesign of the Z8.
Why do the rotors go different ways. The same reason why European piston engines propellers predominately turn clockwise viewed from the front, Americans, anti-clockwise.
All engines turn the same way (clockwise) but the Europeans left the engine in the normal position and mounted the propeller on the front of the crankshaft. The Americans, on the other hand mounted their propeller on the power take off position on the rear of the crankshaft in the same way as clutches and gearboxes. The result is that the engine it is mounted back-to-front in European eyes and the propellor goes the wrong way.
When the first helicopters were designed their rotors went, naturally, the same way as their predecessors propellers.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Linköping, Sweden
Feastdriver: This is very interesting. Are you saying that the Frelon has a Sikorsky heritage?
Turbohaft/Heli1: Why do you think China struggles so much with turbine/dynamic systems technology. Theoretically, China is now the world's leading manufacturing nation (and its increasing). Where are they failing where the likes of Kawasaki, Fuji and numerous other Japanese firms have succeeded in aviation?
Turbohaft/Heli1: Why do you think China struggles so much with turbine/dynamic systems technology. Theoretically, China is now the world's leading manufacturing nation (and its increasing). Where are they failing where the likes of Kawasaki, Fuji and numerous other Japanese firms have succeeded in aviation?
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From: the hills of halton
China excels in mass produced items generally low tech/ low cost . I saw the second EC120 fuselage and the finish was very poor , large gaps and mismatches lousy rivetting . The last place i worked sourced gears from a company in China and the initial rejection rate was appalling .
I have no doubt that within 10 years they will be producing quality gas turbines
I have no doubt that within 10 years they will be producing quality gas turbines
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From: Poland
Originally Posted by moscovite
This is very funny foto. Of course you know we are not flying this in Russia. This pictur is because American film budget small.
It wasn't really because of the budget, as at the time the movie was made (1988) there were no eastern block helicopters available for the western cinematography - so in all movies, the role of eastern machines were played by French helicopters - mostly Pumas, and Gazelle (most notably in Rambo III and Red Dawn). Even in the last two decades it is rare to see one in movie - right now I remember three such films - "Sniper II" had Mi-2, so did the "Spy Game", and "Behind Enemy Lines" had Mi-8... for some odd reason with French special forces inside. Can't remember any western movies with real Hind in it though, the closest ones were the CGI ones in "Wilson's War"... can't beat "9 Рота" on that one.
Didn't know the "Beast of War" was made in Israel... that explains a lot.
About the Chinese helicopter - you, know, someone once said that imitation is the highest form of flattery
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From: UK
Are you saying that the Frelon has a Sikorsky heritage?
Could have been a successful civil aircraft apart from the noise, appalling fuel consumption and poor cruising speed.
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From: White eagle land
I suggest China to keep buying Mi17 - better than Frelon. Perhaps know that company making new Chinese helicopter [Avicopter] is talking to us (Mil factory) about co-production in China for Mi17 which much better idea.
Arrakis
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Why do you think China struggles so much with turbine/dynamic systems technology.
That's not to say that China won't get there, but it's not as straightforward as copying an airframe or an avionics board.
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From: Oakdale Ca.
China's AC313 Helicopter
A giant domestic helicopter for civil use with a maximum take-off load of 13.8 tons, landed safely after its live-televised debut in Jingdezhen city, east China’s Jiangxi province Thursday morning.The giant helicopter was designed and produced by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, a state-own enterprise which provides advanced aviation weaponry to the country’s military forces.The latest product, with a maximum voyage of 900 kilometers (559 miles) and a boarding capacity of 27 passengers, is hailed as a breakthrough in domestic aviation technology which could be employed in earthquake relief.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: UK
Covered a week or so ago.At least the picture confirms the rotor turning anti-clockwise from above so the rotor and transmission is still Sikorsky based from the Super Frelon.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Linköping, Sweden
This is a very interesting photo of the AC313 - the nose is more blunt than the drawings.
One wonders whether this will be a cost effective aircraft - not that this will make much difference; being Chinese manufactured it will doubtless be obligatory for government departments to procure this product and, given China's growing revenues, operating costs probably won't be the bottom line.
Nevertheless - well done to China for this manufacturing breakthrough.
Does anyone know whether Eurocopter assisted AIC behind the scenes?
One wonders whether this will be a cost effective aircraft - not that this will make much difference; being Chinese manufactured it will doubtless be obligatory for government departments to procure this product and, given China's growing revenues, operating costs probably won't be the bottom line.
Nevertheless - well done to China for this manufacturing breakthrough.
Does anyone know whether Eurocopter assisted AIC behind the scenes?
