An incident or not?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 187
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From: Durham
An incident or not?
Please bear with me as I need some sound advice and this is not a wind-up.
For reasons I can't go into as they are to do with a possible court case, something unusual happened today with a police helicopter which was above the scene of what I cannot go into........The reason why the helo was there was legitimate but I had some concerns.
It was dusk and the helo had no navigation lights whatsoever showing. Nothing. No red or green or rotating light. I could barely make out the silhouette. This was for approximately 10 minutes and the aircraft departed for its base still not showing any lights.
It was close (about 2nm) from an approach to a small airport ( its base) but the helo was well under the descent slope, at probably 500 feet.
Is this permitted under any circumstances? It is probable that infra red was used. The searchlight was not used.
If this is an incident what should I do about it? CAA to be notified?
I would appreciate sensible and pragmatic answers.
MD
For reasons I can't go into as they are to do with a possible court case, something unusual happened today with a police helicopter which was above the scene of what I cannot go into........The reason why the helo was there was legitimate but I had some concerns.
It was dusk and the helo had no navigation lights whatsoever showing. Nothing. No red or green or rotating light. I could barely make out the silhouette. This was for approximately 10 minutes and the aircraft departed for its base still not showing any lights.
It was close (about 2nm) from an approach to a small airport ( its base) but the helo was well under the descent slope, at probably 500 feet.
Is this permitted under any circumstances? It is probable that infra red was used. The searchlight was not used.
If this is an incident what should I do about it? CAA to be notified?
I would appreciate sensible and pragmatic answers.
MD
Guest
Posts: n/a
Maybe it was an incident, maybe not. Complain to the CAA, the police, anyone one you want. You will not get anywhere. Unless a police helicopter crashes into someone, your complaint will get filed in the bin. "Essential to a police operation", "security alert", "ongoing major investigation", etc.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
If this is an incident what should I do about it?
Cheers
Whirls
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 1
From: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Mmmm ...
I doubt that this would be classed as an 'incident' in an aviation sense.
It may well be an incident in a police tactical sense.
I doubt you will fault the aircrew ... it may be there was a requirement for them to not show 'lights' and their actions may well be allowed for by their approved operations manual.
My advice .... leave this alone .... smells of a 'fishing expedition!
Cheers
I doubt that this would be classed as an 'incident' in an aviation sense.
It may well be an incident in a police tactical sense.
I doubt you will fault the aircrew ... it may be there was a requirement for them to not show 'lights' and their actions may well be allowed for by their approved operations manual.
My advice .... leave this alone .... smells of a 'fishing expedition!
Cheers
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
I think what you are fishing after is;
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf
Sect 2 page 24
As this wasn't at night, nav lights need not be displayed and the anti col could well have been u/s.
As for operating under the descent slope, this happens even at large airfields.
I suspect the only 'incident' was the one the Police were dealing with that I suspect you simply want to know more about. Why not call them?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf
Sect 2 page 24
As this wasn't at night, nav lights need not be displayed and the anti col could well have been u/s.
As for operating under the descent slope, this happens even at large airfields.
I suspect the only 'incident' was the one the Police were dealing with that I suspect you simply want to know more about. Why not call them?
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: In The Trap, trapped.....
Got to agree with Whirlygig and Spinwing,
Why do you feel the need to report this, incident or not? Was it night flying or not? Perhaps they had a day VFR clearance and had to return within the 10 mins you state.
Weren't our boys in blue conducting a nice clean up mission keeping you safe in bed at night or do you have something to hide????
If you are trying to complain perhaps because of noise, you appear to be within 2 miles of an airport, they tend to be noisy places.
Perhaps they had a lighting failure when airborne and only noticed as it got dark?
Not enough info to make a call. I'd be quite happy for the police to be above my house catching bad guys lights on or off.
pasptoo
Why do you feel the need to report this, incident or not? Was it night flying or not? Perhaps they had a day VFR clearance and had to return within the 10 mins you state.
Weren't our boys in blue conducting a nice clean up mission keeping you safe in bed at night or do you have something to hide????
If you are trying to complain perhaps because of noise, you appear to be within 2 miles of an airport, they tend to be noisy places.
Perhaps they had a lighting failure when airborne and only noticed as it got dark?
Not enough info to make a call. I'd be quite happy for the police to be above my house catching bad guys lights on or off.
pasptoo
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: burnham
From what you have 'not ' said, I take you or one of your friends was caught doing something by the police helicopter and you are looking for a way to have the helicopters footage thrown out on a 'technicality'.
If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
Rob
If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
Rob
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: South of North and East of West!
There was a similar post to this not long ago, I think involving a Met EC 145. Maybe firearms were involved and the air unit saw fit to turn off the lights to avoid being a target.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 261
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From: Behind a dusty desk, and in some really hot, dusty, wet and cold places subject to who is paying the bill. But mostly Gods own land.
"For reasons I can't go into as they are to do with a possible court case" ...great, another "possible" scum-bag goes free because someone wants to lynch a pilot because they "had some concerns".
The "sound advice" is don't talk about such things on a public web-site... if you cause the collapse of a trial involving the CPS they may well decide to prosecute you!
The "sound advice" is don't talk about such things on a public web-site... if you cause the collapse of a trial involving the CPS they may well decide to prosecute you!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 673
Likes: 1
From: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
Mercury,
Dont know what your gripe is, but you can safely assume that the police aircraft was not doing whatever it was doing for the purpose of winding you up. They have a job to do, they are doing it as professionally as they can. If it was dusk, it wasnt night (sunset + 30 mins). Even if it was night, perhaps they were concentrating on catching bad guys, and forgot to put their nav lights on for 5 mins or so. Big deal! They can do without verbal sniping, as well as real sniping!
Dont know what your gripe is, but you can safely assume that the police aircraft was not doing whatever it was doing for the purpose of winding you up. They have a job to do, they are doing it as professionally as they can. If it was dusk, it wasnt night (sunset + 30 mins). Even if it was night, perhaps they were concentrating on catching bad guys, and forgot to put their nav lights on for 5 mins or so. Big deal! They can do without verbal sniping, as well as real sniping!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
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From: UK
I think Mr Mercury should have declared an interest.......
in a post elsewhere on PPRuNe 2/10/2008 he said...... "OK I am outed as a Health and Safety Executive investigator".
no problem with you or your job, Mr Mercury, but I find your "tactics" to say the least underhand.
in a post elsewhere on PPRuNe 2/10/2008 he said...... "OK I am outed as a Health and Safety Executive investigator".
no problem with you or your job, Mr Mercury, but I find your "tactics" to say the least underhand.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 294
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From: upyours
You obviously don’t have to be very bright to investigate for the HSE.
Manfromuncle
Do you not like the police very much?
Manfromuncle
You will not get anywhere. Unless a police helicopter crashes into someone, your complaint will get filed in the bin.
Do you not like the police very much?
Joined: Mar 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 659
Likes: 13
From: Under my coconut tree
spinwing,
Maybe it's me that's officially gone mad, but I like this place
I knowe itts defunutly ficked up me shpelling in langoage skulls (thanks for the invite Gordy, but 2 years of spraying cotton in Mississippi was plenty)
Maybe it's me that's officially gone mad, but I like this place
I knowe itts defunutly ficked up me shpelling in langoage skulls (thanks for the invite Gordy, but 2 years of spraying cotton in Mississippi was plenty)