Helicopter rescue hoist >250 fpm ?
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Helicopter rescue hoist >250 fpm ?
I know for a fact that the Russian LPG-300 electric rescue hoist can lift 600lbs with speed of up to 280 fpm, and lower it with speed of up to 400 fpm. So I was searching for a western hoist giving similar performance... and didn't found one so far, are there any ?
The LPG-300 even though fast, and highly reliable - have its drawbacks like:
- high inertia (around 2 feet of over-travel when lowering)
- can blow out it's fuses when the operator is going through "gears" too fast (it's a 4-speed winch)
- it is relatively easy to damage cable, when allowing too much over-travel (can unwind too much cable, that may snag or get off the hoist wheels - not a show stopper, but requires replacing of cable before next mission).
Was wondering if there is a western design that can replace it.
The LPG-300 even though fast, and highly reliable - have its drawbacks like:
- high inertia (around 2 feet of over-travel when lowering)
- can blow out it's fuses when the operator is going through "gears" too fast (it's a 4-speed winch)
- it is relatively easy to damage cable, when allowing too much over-travel (can unwind too much cable, that may snag or get off the hoist wheels - not a show stopper, but requires replacing of cable before next mission).
Was wondering if there is a western design that can replace it.
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The Goodrich web site is apparently not up to speed with their products, I found a 2004 press release abut the 350 fpm electric hoist for S-92 and EC225, but can't find any more info about it. This would put it in the same league as the B-E HS-2990.
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lost horizon
88 metres/sec ....... that is about 190 mph, now that is amazing. As long as you can stop before the rotor disc and don't blackout. What other kit have they got on the Air Knight machine?
88 metres/sec ....... that is about 190 mph, now that is amazing. As long as you can stop before the rotor disc and don't blackout. What other kit have they got on the Air Knight machine?
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Lt.Fubar.
The Goodrich hoist is a far better piece of gear.
I think it was a typo by lost horizon, it is 200 ft per min, (variable), 600Lb rated, 250ft usable cable.
A better engineered hoist in my opinion.
Cheers
Op's
The Goodrich hoist is a far better piece of gear.
I think it was a typo by lost horizon, it is 200 ft per min, (variable), 600Lb rated, 250ft usable cable.
A better engineered hoist in my opinion.
Cheers
Op's
Most importantly, does it have a slip-clutch to prevent the wire snapping in case of entanglement with obstacles?
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Crab,
The idea of a slip clutch sounds fantastic. That said, what situation do you envision a hoist operator using full speed when in close proximity to obstacles? I'd imagine the guy on the other end of the cable would protest very loudly about getting banged against the trees/boat structure at 250+ fpm before said clutch took over. Every super confined area hoist I've done has involved a lot of coordination with either the guy riding the cable or the guy holding the tag line.
To be clear, I'm not saying the idea/requirement is without merit, just how necessary is it?
Bus
The idea of a slip clutch sounds fantastic. That said, what situation do you envision a hoist operator using full speed when in close proximity to obstacles? I'd imagine the guy on the other end of the cable would protest very loudly about getting banged against the trees/boat structure at 250+ fpm before said clutch took over. Every super confined area hoist I've done has involved a lot of coordination with either the guy riding the cable or the guy holding the tag line.
To be clear, I'm not saying the idea/requirement is without merit, just how necessary is it?
Bus
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Goodrich Hoists
The Goodrich hoists fitted to both the Coastguard S92 and AW139 have slip clutches fitted.
This is to prevent the cable snapping if the hook were to be caught on a deck fittting etc on a heaving deck in rough seas.
A few years ago an Irish CG S61 tried to lift a boat out of the water with it's hoist (not the full story). Result: cable snapped and whipped up through the blades and partly wrapped around the cockpit. Fortunately the aircraft was recovered to base.
Link to report here:
http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/8234-0.pdf
The AC powered hoist on the S92 is slightly quicker at full load (600lbs) than the DC equivalent fitted to the AW139.
Both have a usable cable length of 290 feet.
(edited to include link)
This is to prevent the cable snapping if the hook were to be caught on a deck fittting etc on a heaving deck in rough seas.
A few years ago an Irish CG S61 tried to lift a boat out of the water with it's hoist (not the full story). Result: cable snapped and whipped up through the blades and partly wrapped around the cockpit. Fortunately the aircraft was recovered to base.
Link to report here:
http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/8234-0.pdf
The AC powered hoist on the S92 is slightly quicker at full load (600lbs) than the DC equivalent fitted to the AW139.
Both have a usable cable length of 290 feet.
(edited to include link)
Last edited by rgnewboy; 9th Feb 2010 at 10:04.
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Overload / Slip Clutch
Just a little clarification re the message stream.
Firstly Breeze does have a Reactive Overload Clutch (ROC) which will slip under shock load conditions. Numerous tests have been run to prove this.
Secondly busdriver02 is correct in that a Winch Operator will always be looking after anyone on the hook, however there are numerous cases of cables snagging on structures and breaking. The amount of energy in a good cable at breaking point is easily enough to rebound it into the Main Rotor Blades.
No cable has broken under high shock loads in a hoist fitted with a ROC.
All hoists have to meet the aircraft manufacturers specifications as does all the other kit fitted to airframes some just do it better than others. AC hoists are fast and have to be controlled in accelleration to prevent damage to anyone on the hook.
AC hoists can raise 600 lbs faster than 350 fpm but don't forget high speed reversals at deck level have to balance the time it takes to slow down and reverse with the G levels imparted to the load. Makes you grunt otherwise! The over run from when the control is reversed should be less than 1 ft (at 350 fpm).
Firstly Breeze does have a Reactive Overload Clutch (ROC) which will slip under shock load conditions. Numerous tests have been run to prove this.
Secondly busdriver02 is correct in that a Winch Operator will always be looking after anyone on the hook, however there are numerous cases of cables snagging on structures and breaking. The amount of energy in a good cable at breaking point is easily enough to rebound it into the Main Rotor Blades.
No cable has broken under high shock loads in a hoist fitted with a ROC.
All hoists have to meet the aircraft manufacturers specifications as does all the other kit fitted to airframes some just do it better than others. AC hoists are fast and have to be controlled in accelleration to prevent damage to anyone on the hook.
AC hoists can raise 600 lbs faster than 350 fpm but don't forget high speed reversals at deck level have to balance the time it takes to slow down and reverse with the G levels imparted to the load. Makes you grunt otherwise! The over run from when the control is reversed should be less than 1 ft (at 350 fpm).
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Cable Failures
Reading busdriver02's message begs the question of just how many cable failures have occured over say the last 10 years due to being caught on structure?
I know of at least 20 and most of those have caused damage to the aircraft and occasionally aircrew.
Anyone willing to admit to their interesting moments?
If the cable rebounded to the aircraft an ROC would have stopped the failure and a slip clutch may also have. if the cable did not reach the aircraft it was probably cut where it caught on the structure and neither an ROC or Slip Clutch would have prevented the cable failing.
The more data the clearer the picture.
oldrep
I know of at least 20 and most of those have caused damage to the aircraft and occasionally aircrew.
Anyone willing to admit to their interesting moments?
If the cable rebounded to the aircraft an ROC would have stopped the failure and a slip clutch may also have. if the cable did not reach the aircraft it was probably cut where it caught on the structure and neither an ROC or Slip Clutch would have prevented the cable failing.
The more data the clearer the picture.
oldrep
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I've definitely heard of both shears and snags within my community. But none have resulted in a cable snapping to include much cable abuse operating after hurricane Katrina.
The idea that the clutch could prevent a shock load is in retrospect obvious, but one I didn't think of when I posted before. Where I'm assigned now, I see much more open ocean, big wave type operations than my previous assignment and the idea seems very nice. It would probably speed things up quite a bit not bothering with the fast rope in high seas.
The idea that the clutch could prevent a shock load is in retrospect obvious, but one I didn't think of when I posted before. Where I'm assigned now, I see much more open ocean, big wave type operations than my previous assignment and the idea seems very nice. It would probably speed things up quite a bit not bothering with the fast rope in high seas.
