My Ideal SAR Helicopter would.......
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: In England
My Ideal SAR Helicopter would.......
Isn't intriguing that despite the helo SAR role being in worldwide demand, there has yet to be a design created for the role from the drawing board onwards........all are adaptations (some good but none ideal) from designs created for other roles....
Isn't time we had a dedicated design (or designs) --one for long range and/or high capacity missions and another fro dedicated short range stuff such as beach/cliff and mountain jobs..both with all-weather capability too........
Expect the SAR-H choices might have been more interesting had such beasts existed.....
Isn't time we had a dedicated design (or designs) --one for long range and/or high capacity missions and another fro dedicated short range stuff such as beach/cliff and mountain jobs..both with all-weather capability too........
Expect the SAR-H choices might have been more interesting had such beasts existed.....
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: In England
...And why not.................we really should get out more you know...too much Sat night TV waiting for the call from the RCC gets into the blood eh LB? What would you say were your top5 design priorites for that SAR machine then LB?
Happy New Year BTW
Happy New Year BTW
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 317
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From: Escaped from ABZ...
1. Stable hover platform, with no 'unusual' handling characteristics
2. Good speed/endurance/range capability
3. User friendly cabin shape and size; smart storage solutions
4. All the toys - Autopilot/NVG/Mission Management/Comms etc
5. Yellow
2. Good speed/endurance/range capability
3. User friendly cabin shape and size; smart storage solutions
4. All the toys - Autopilot/NVG/Mission Management/Comms etc
5. Yellow
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 821
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From: no comment ;)
Have coaxial rotor like Ka32 but smaller radius like 12 to 14 m,
all western avionics and left&right front slide doors with hoist.
Central opening for sling and back ramp, 4 axis auto pilot
is must, and at last 2500 h of resources on turbines and MGB.
MTOW of 8 to 12 T, almost full standing high floor, near both hoist doors.
Flight to service ratio must be not worse than 1 : 1,5 h,
Emergency flotations will sustain impact of CFIT on 100 kt
tnx to new kind of quick expansion foams instead of gas.
all western avionics and left&right front slide doors with hoist.
Central opening for sling and back ramp, 4 axis auto pilot
is must, and at last 2500 h of resources on turbines and MGB.
MTOW of 8 to 12 T, almost full standing high floor, near both hoist doors.
Flight to service ratio must be not worse than 1 : 1,5 h,
Emergency flotations will sustain impact of CFIT on 100 kt
tnx to new kind of quick expansion foams instead of gas.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 181
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From: In the desert southwest
never perfect
The H-60, in my opinion, is one of the finest machines ever built. It has evolved dramatically but at its heart it is powerful and has a reliable rotor system. Of course for all it brings to the table, you have to pay the price.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I agree about the H-60 series, it's a superb machine, powerful, and easy to hover, makes a very stable winching platform. The big engined variant would be my preferance; it's like a flying V8 Landrover. Having said that,the SAR modes of the S-76 autopilot are excellent apart from the radalt height hold, which can get out of sequence with the swell.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: australia
Perfect SAR machine
Currently flying AW 139 EMS/SAR in oz. Despite some intro teething problems into service they are shapping up to be a fantastic EMS/SAR platform. Spent many years in S70A in ADF and I thought back then it was the just a tough & brilliant all round machine and did many Aeromedical work but the AW 139 with its power and cabin size not to mention FLIR and NVG compatability surely gets my vote. Autohover to follow in the next few years...then I would say Im "living the dream" when it comes to top of the range SAR platform....
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: KoN
SAR cannot be seen as one specific type of operation.
Having had the mixed pleasure of working with these things full time for a couple of years, I believe this cannot be discussed without first putting the operation in context, considerering things such as what you should be able to do and especially the area to be covered - not to mention your budget (but which is perhaps not relevant if we talk about "ideal"?).
The ideal SAR helicopter and your priorities will be quite different for a short range onshore and coastal SAR in VFR conditions than if you e.g. should be able to pick up 25 survivors at 240 nm/10 at 385 nm and return to base in most weather conditions.
Having had the mixed pleasure of working with these things full time for a couple of years, I believe this cannot be discussed without first putting the operation in context, considerering things such as what you should be able to do and especially the area to be covered - not to mention your budget (but which is perhaps not relevant if we talk about "ideal"?).
The ideal SAR helicopter and your priorities will be quite different for a short range onshore and coastal SAR in VFR conditions than if you e.g. should be able to pick up 25 survivors at 240 nm/10 at 385 nm and return to base in most weather conditions.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: U.K.
despite the SAR role being in worldwide demand, there has yet to be a design created for the role from the drawing board onwards.......Isn't time we had a dedicated design (or designs) ...
Calling International Rescue!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: In England
While I'm sure we have affection for the particular types we have all flown in the SAR role - capable as they might be, none are ideal and many have significant design issues/omissions - the purpose of this thread was to discuss ideal characteristics and not expound on the virtues of a particular existing platform - good as some of them might be - wouldn't want this thread to become a willy waving competition or advertisng line for certain manufacturers - can't imagine for example that the 139 or the 60 have great cabins for paramedic comfort beyond one casualty .....however great they are in other design features...and as for fully functional and safe all weather AFCS's - well there's another thread altogether!!
Like the point about having a larger ac for long range multi-survivor rescue and a neater smaller ac for short range and mountain rescue scenarios......stable hover characteristics can also mean lack of precision maneouvre capability if the ASE/AFCS design is not optimised = so we need to be careful here.....
Just think that those operating so professionally in the dedicated SAR role - particualry if its a national level capability deserve a dedicted specialised design - maybe one day......
PS ---love the tilt rotor adaptations in Avatar.......now if only......
Cheers
Like the point about having a larger ac for long range multi-survivor rescue and a neater smaller ac for short range and mountain rescue scenarios......stable hover characteristics can also mean lack of precision maneouvre capability if the ASE/AFCS design is not optimised = so we need to be careful here.....
Just think that those operating so professionally in the dedicated SAR role - particualry if its a national level capability deserve a dedicted specialised design - maybe one day......
PS ---love the tilt rotor adaptations in Avatar.......now if only......
Cheers
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: In England
You're so right SW...........think I'm sage enough now to be old father Tracey!!....who would you want to be - Scott or Brains?? Can you imagine the SAR-H winner choosing to locate their HQ on an island offshore - no doubt got its virtues given the hassle they will get everytime someone perceives that the Uk's "privatised" SAR service has cocked up Floppy palm trees won't be in the requirement though so its probably off the solution agenda!!!
Cheers
Floppy palm trees won't be in the requirement though so its probably off the solution agenda!!!Cheers
