EC130 as an EMS / SAR machine?
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cleartorotate - is that A$2.5 mil for a Koala? Stateside they're 50% more expensive than a 407 or EC130/350B3. This, plus the 119's higher operating costs, probably explain why so few are used.
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AW119
Hi Eddie1,
If you follow this link
AW119 Ke | AgustaWestland
Click the brochures tab. Open the PDF file and on the 3rd page you'll see some interior images of the 119, including one image showing the single stretcher configuration, which in my opinion is a more viable option.
Two stretchers in the cabin looks to be very cramped. A slightly overambitious move by Agusta. The single stretcher image shows some medical equipment on board also.
If you follow this link
AW119 Ke | AgustaWestland
Click the brochures tab. Open the PDF file and on the 3rd page you'll see some interior images of the 119, including one image showing the single stretcher configuration, which in my opinion is a more viable option.
Two stretchers in the cabin looks to be very cramped. A slightly overambitious move by Agusta. The single stretcher image shows some medical equipment on board also.
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Not sure why I would want to help eurocopter out at the minute but eurocopter uk have a new EC130b4 for sale and please find a link attached for the airmethods EMS STC.
http://www.airmethods.com/resources/files/EC130.pdf
http://www.airmethods.com/resources/files/EC130.pdf
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Thanks again...
Thanks again all for some valuable input. Especially helpful were the pix and the links. What a great resource we have with these forums! Fly safe n enjoy. I.
I have to agree with spinwing on this one. The way the regs are headed, many operators that have single engine machines as back-up to their twins are trading in for light twins.
Last edited by havick; 23rd Aug 2010 at 11:52.
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I've never seen an EC 130 used for SAR. i know Travis county used 135's for rescue, but have since moved on to the 145. as far as power, the EC 135 is a bit lacking, even being a twin engine.
I guess it depends on your crew, gear etc. Personally (being a nurse, and not a pilot) i would suggest at the very minimum a 135. This is just from hearing the pilots reactions to the lack of power in the 135. i couldn't imagine what they would have to say about a single engine aircraft, for multiple reasons.
Is this for high or low elevation rescue?
I guess it depends on your crew, gear etc. Personally (being a nurse, and not a pilot) i would suggest at the very minimum a 135. This is just from hearing the pilots reactions to the lack of power in the 135. i couldn't imagine what they would have to say about a single engine aircraft, for multiple reasons.
Is this for high or low elevation rescue?
429
If you think that you'll want to do more multimission flights, you may want to check out the 429. Australia is one of the countries I think that has approved the 7500 lb MGW and the Fairfax county and Air Zermatt ships do exactly that.
Maybe the middle ground between the 130 and the 139
Maybe the middle ground between the 130 and the 139
Just a small comment on the 119 pictures from an ignorant doctor. Flying adults as opposed to children head first causes brain damage if they have a head injury or are sedated
Sadly nobody thinks about the patient. They need to be flown longitudinally feet first. Babies do better with the incubator at right angles to the direction of travel
Sadly nobody thinks about the patient. They need to be flown longitudinally feet first. Babies do better with the incubator at right angles to the direction of travel
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doctor???
Homonclus, I posted the original pics of the 119. I'm not a doctor, and never alluded to such a fact.
Also what you mentioned in your post regarding the angle the patient is positioned at, do you have any more info about this. I'm surprised AW missed that, I would have thought EMS AC were all built to the same specification.
Also what you mentioned in your post regarding the angle the patient is positioned at, do you have any more info about this. I'm surprised AW missed that, I would have thought EMS AC were all built to the same specification.
Ok for those interested........
The pressure inside the brain is normally controlled. If you have a head injury, are sedated or anaesthetised, this regulatory mechanism is disabled. Any bleeding inside the skull will then be catastrophic, but also if you put the patients head down in relation to the body blood will flow into the head increasing pressure. Moreover if we accelerate the patient feet first the pressure inside the brain goes up, and falls as you brake. If you move the patient head first it is the other way round.
The rise in pressure cuts off the blood and thus oxygen to the brain, and in particular the penumbra or area around the injury. It lasts longer than the period of pressure and can kill.
So moving these patients can literally kill them. This is why we put patients on a ventilator before moving them, as over breathing them restricts the blood vessels in the brain and provide some protection. We have to anaesthetise the patient, but the drugs we use are also protective
When we then put the patient in a land vehicle or fixed wing we have little control over the destructive forces - some of you may recall ambulances travelling at 10 miles an hour, but suspension movements are still destructive.
The helicopter is unique in providing a protective attitude. Flown correctly for the patient, a patient loaded feet first will go head up as they accelerate. The two forces cancel each other out. Deceleration is the same. A balanced turn applies no forces. The helicopter really is a life saver - we published evidence of this when moving intensive care patients 25 years ago - possibly the only evidence of reducing mortality due to mode of transport as opposed to cutting time to treatment
Sadly in the UK the NHS has refused to continue to pay for dedicated inter hospital ITU helicopter transfers. HEMS helicopters obviously provide the benefits detailed above, but lack the very specialised equipment and medical staf that should be part of the package
Happy to answer any PMs
The pressure inside the brain is normally controlled. If you have a head injury, are sedated or anaesthetised, this regulatory mechanism is disabled. Any bleeding inside the skull will then be catastrophic, but also if you put the patients head down in relation to the body blood will flow into the head increasing pressure. Moreover if we accelerate the patient feet first the pressure inside the brain goes up, and falls as you brake. If you move the patient head first it is the other way round.
The rise in pressure cuts off the blood and thus oxygen to the brain, and in particular the penumbra or area around the injury. It lasts longer than the period of pressure and can kill.
So moving these patients can literally kill them. This is why we put patients on a ventilator before moving them, as over breathing them restricts the blood vessels in the brain and provide some protection. We have to anaesthetise the patient, but the drugs we use are also protective
When we then put the patient in a land vehicle or fixed wing we have little control over the destructive forces - some of you may recall ambulances travelling at 10 miles an hour, but suspension movements are still destructive.
The helicopter is unique in providing a protective attitude. Flown correctly for the patient, a patient loaded feet first will go head up as they accelerate. The two forces cancel each other out. Deceleration is the same. A balanced turn applies no forces. The helicopter really is a life saver - we published evidence of this when moving intensive care patients 25 years ago - possibly the only evidence of reducing mortality due to mode of transport as opposed to cutting time to treatment
Sadly in the UK the NHS has refused to continue to pay for dedicated inter hospital ITU helicopter transfers. HEMS helicopters obviously provide the benefits detailed above, but lack the very specialised equipment and medical staf that should be part of the package
Happy to answer any PMs
Hi homunculus,
It seems from your description that it would be better to load head forward as nearly all HEMS machines do. That would include the A119 and A109 that we operate/d.
In general terms, helicopters hover nose up, therefore best to have head at front.
Most accelerate nose down, but flow neutralised by accel. Most decelerate nose up, again flow neutralised by accel.
Most cruise floor level, so neutral flow.
Agree 100% with you reasoning behind helicopters being a transport platform of choice.
Would love a link to your paper please.
It seems from your description that it would be better to load head forward as nearly all HEMS machines do. That would include the A119 and A109 that we operate/d.
In general terms, helicopters hover nose up, therefore best to have head at front.
Most accelerate nose down, but flow neutralised by accel. Most decelerate nose up, again flow neutralised by accel.
Most cruise floor level, so neutral flow.
Agree 100% with you reasoning behind helicopters being a transport platform of choice.
Would love a link to your paper please.
"Just a pilot"
"Does anyone run a nightsun either?"
Have you considered NVGs? I've used various high intensity light sources since Vietnam, and NVGs for a couple years now- Never going back to unaided! I liked the Nightsun for EMS mountain work, but if the atmosphere isn't crystal-clear, using a Nightsun type installation will obscure more than it lights.
Have you considered NVGs? I've used various high intensity light sources since Vietnam, and NVGs for a couple years now- Never going back to unaided! I liked the Nightsun for EMS mountain work, but if the atmosphere isn't crystal-clear, using a Nightsun type installation will obscure more than it lights.
Helmet fire
Although a head first loaded patient is safer rotary than in other forms of transport, the patient does much worse than if feet first. The reason is the attitude change occurs before the acceleration and the uncompensated G force raises intracranial pressure
When we fly ITU patients we have a pressure transducer inside an artery, often inside the head and increasingly now we are doing continuous ultrasound of the blood vessels. These are parameters HEMS do not routinely use so they do not pick up these problems.
Will send you the paper
Although a head first loaded patient is safer rotary than in other forms of transport, the patient does much worse than if feet first. The reason is the attitude change occurs before the acceleration and the uncompensated G force raises intracranial pressure
When we fly ITU patients we have a pressure transducer inside an artery, often inside the head and increasingly now we are doing continuous ultrasound of the blood vessels. These are parameters HEMS do not routinely use so they do not pick up these problems.
Will send you the paper