SAR Heli down in Almeria
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Good Grief! Why arent the tabloid newspapers clamouring for government and regulator resignations? Is this all common knowledge in Spain?
sketchy 'preliminary report'
Here is the very limited and sketchy 'preliminary report' tha the CIAIAC has just released:
Date, place: 21-01-2010. South of Almería airport, in the sea.
Aircraft EC-KYR. Agusta AW-139
Aircraft damaged: Destroyed.
Operation type: Aerial work/commercial/government (search and rescue)
Phase: En route
Dead: 3 Injured:1
On January 21st 2010 helicopter AW139 EC-KYR, operated by INAER, took off from Almería airport at 17:11 UTC, to perform a SAR (Search And Rescue) maneuvers training flight. Pilot, copilot, hoist operator and rescue man were onboard. After finishing the training, crew asked for authorization and instructions to return to Almería airport. The crew read back the ATC instructions for returning to airport, without reporting any problem or declaring emergency. Some minutes later the helicopter fell down in the sea. The pilot, copilot and rescue man were killed in the impact and the hoist operator was seriously injured.
Wreckage of the helicopter has been recovered, as well as the digital flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder, with which the helicopter was equipped. The information contained in both recorders, data and communications, has been downloaded successfully in the facilities of AAIB, the English institution for air accidents investigation. The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
21-01-2010. EC-KYR. Agusta Westland AW-139. Proximidades del Aeropuerto de Almería - 2010 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento (Spanish and English)
Crew experience?
Complete history of the flight?
Search and Rescue?
Weather?
Wreckage recovery?
Recorded data?
Engineering?
Safety actions?
Further investigation?
Sketchy indeeed. As a reference, an AAIB preliminary report will include this sort of information, in a 3 to 5-page-long document .
Compare this report with a typical AAIB report, for instance http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...9%20G-REDU.pdf (published two weeks after the accident)
verticalflight
Date, place: 21-01-2010. South of Almería airport, in the sea.
Aircraft EC-KYR. Agusta AW-139
Aircraft damaged: Destroyed.
Operation type: Aerial work/commercial/government (search and rescue)
Phase: En route
Dead: 3 Injured:1
On January 21st 2010 helicopter AW139 EC-KYR, operated by INAER, took off from Almería airport at 17:11 UTC, to perform a SAR (Search And Rescue) maneuvers training flight. Pilot, copilot, hoist operator and rescue man were onboard. After finishing the training, crew asked for authorization and instructions to return to Almería airport. The crew read back the ATC instructions for returning to airport, without reporting any problem or declaring emergency. Some minutes later the helicopter fell down in the sea. The pilot, copilot and rescue man were killed in the impact and the hoist operator was seriously injured.
Wreckage of the helicopter has been recovered, as well as the digital flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder, with which the helicopter was equipped. The information contained in both recorders, data and communications, has been downloaded successfully in the facilities of AAIB, the English institution for air accidents investigation. The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
21-01-2010. EC-KYR. Agusta Westland AW-139. Proximidades del Aeropuerto de Almería - 2010 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento (Spanish and English)
Crew experience?
Complete history of the flight?
Search and Rescue?
Weather?
Wreckage recovery?
Recorded data?
Engineering?
Safety actions?
Further investigation?
Sketchy indeeed. As a reference, an AAIB preliminary report will include this sort of information, in a 3 to 5-page-long document .
Compare this report with a typical AAIB report, for instance http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...9%20G-REDU.pdf (published two weeks after the accident)
verticalflight
Outrageous that a so called civilised country like Spain can cut through legislation at government level to get the job done
Hopefully and surely the deceased estate lawyers will have access to data exposing this violation and sue the government for millions.
Under the surface, it seems this country is just another basket case
Hopefully and surely the deceased estate lawyers will have access to data exposing this violation and sue the government for millions.
Under the surface, it seems this country is just another basket case
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Thomas Coupling - Like you, I was amazed that they could get away with it. It just goes to show that although JAA purports to implement standards across the member countries, the reality lurking underneath the JAA umbrella is often very different from what you might expect.
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Non-PC Plod
Oh that level playing field again, Thats one subject that most "Pruners" would have some form of input to add,
If as Verticalflight states the wreckage has been recovered, anyone know if the tail boom was still attached,
Mav
Oh that level playing field again, Thats one subject that most "Pruners" would have some form of input to add,
If as Verticalflight states the wreckage has been recovered, anyone know if the tail boom was still attached,
Mav
Maverick, you complained about the report then completely ignored it and missed this minor part:
The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
It is very very hard to fly straight and stabilized with a missing tail boom.
The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
It is very very hard to fly straight and stabilized with a missing tail boom.
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who are investigating?
It being an Italian-British manufactured machine, are the Italian and/or British authorities involved in the official investigation and if they are, will they have any (noticable) influence in the final report?
Mind you, we are still waiting for the JSAR final report if I am not mistaken. And that was an accident with no casualties and therefore many live witnesses..
Mind you, we are still waiting for the JSAR final report if I am not mistaken. And that was an accident with no casualties and therefore many live witnesses..
the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
that sentence can lead us to "conclude" about CFIT....Late afternoon (dusk?!),
But two pilots,
(two) radar altimeters,
4 axis autopilot....
SW BUG?!
Amazing
Why tail rotor blades remain in one piece than?
The rad alts DH / aural warning is usually set to 40ft in Spanish SAR ops. Last ATC recorded ground speed was about 100kts...if the recorded data I posted is correct!
-> So if they where distracted (for whatever reason) and have started a descent, the rad alt warning might have come way to late to wake the crew up and let them react accordingly.
-> So if they where distracted (for whatever reason) and have started a descent, the rad alt warning might have come way to late to wake the crew up and let them react accordingly.
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Tottigol
Wasn't complaining about the report just reaffirming NON-PC Plod statement that since its formation EASA previously known as JAA have allowed there NAA to operate to different standards.
As for missing "the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized with a leveled attitude". I didn't this statement just raises more questions.
Mav
Wasn't complaining about the report just reaffirming NON-PC Plod statement that since its formation EASA previously known as JAA have allowed there NAA to operate to different standards.
As for missing "the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized with a leveled attitude". I didn't this statement just raises more questions.
Mav
Sorry Mav we lost power in the middle of the message, my apologies if I misread your post.
9Aplus, I believe it was night time.
Were there any CAS Messages?
Did the FDR parameters indicate an intentional descent profile?
Were they coupled up?
Were they in landing configuration?
Were they both looking inside trying to figure out how to input data in the MCDUs?
Were the floats armed?
Were they going to shoot a full ILS on RWY26 or were they going to do a left downwind then land visually?
How much time for the crew:
In type, at night, in type at night, flying MCC, recent.
All of those questions except for one already have answers, and someone in the investigative team has already the picture together.
Time will tell for us.
For one, I hope that something good comes out of this tragedy.
9Aplus, I believe it was night time.
Were there any CAS Messages?
Did the FDR parameters indicate an intentional descent profile?
Were they coupled up?
Were they in landing configuration?
Were they both looking inside trying to figure out how to input data in the MCDUs?
Were the floats armed?
Were they going to shoot a full ILS on RWY26 or were they going to do a left downwind then land visually?
How much time for the crew:
In type, at night, in type at night, flying MCC, recent.
All of those questions except for one already have answers, and someone in the investigative team has already the picture together.
Time will tell for us.
For one, I hope that something good comes out of this tragedy.
Last edited by tottigol; 17th Feb 2010 at 20:26. Reason: General editing, lost power in the writing phase.
Too early to say that Cayuse, any party involved in the investigation should not be in a position to just message someone and blab, unless they are directly involved in the investigation itself.
Whatever conclusion we draw so far are just ours based on the limited public information available.
Whatever conclusion we draw so far are just ours based on the limited public information available.
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A bit late to sign up for training dont you think!!
AgustaWestland and Grupo INAER sign MoU for training services | Shephard Group
AgustaWestland and Grupo INAER sign MoU for training services | Shephard Group
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Do any pruners out there have any more information about this particular incident as there appears to be no final report published or have I missed something.
Mav
Mav
there appears to be no final report published
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By way of a small update
By way of a small update...from our local English language newspaper.
'Sam,' as we knew him, was the co-pilot.
Mirador Named in Sam's Honour | Seaside Gazette
Mirador Named in Sam’s Honour
Friday, September 3, 2010
By Editor
Lentejí has named a mirador in honour of the New-Zealander helicopter pilot and village resident Kevin Holmes, who lost his life in an air accident in Almería, known simply as ‘Sam’ to the villagers, he became a loved member of the community in a short time, so much so that everybody was shocked and distraught at the news of his death on the 21st of January.
Now, seven months later, the Mirador (in the Molinillo area) at the top of the village bears a marble plaque in his honour.
“This is a special place for a special person,” said the Mayor upon unveiling the plaque with Sam’s widow, Vera, present.
-ends-
RIP mate
Dan
'Sam,' as we knew him, was the co-pilot.
Mirador Named in Sam's Honour | Seaside Gazette
Mirador Named in Sam’s Honour
Friday, September 3, 2010
By Editor
Lentejí has named a mirador in honour of the New-Zealander helicopter pilot and village resident Kevin Holmes, who lost his life in an air accident in Almería, known simply as ‘Sam’ to the villagers, he became a loved member of the community in a short time, so much so that everybody was shocked and distraught at the news of his death on the 21st of January.
Now, seven months later, the Mirador (in the Molinillo area) at the top of the village bears a marble plaque in his honour.
“This is a special place for a special person,” said the Mayor upon unveiling the plaque with Sam’s widow, Vera, present.
-ends-
RIP mate
Dan
Helimer 207 Interim Report
The 'Interim Report' for this accident has just been released.
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/7..._statement.pdf
It's odd to notice that the CIAIAC have been fairly vague at the time of stating the crew training/qualifications, thus no comment has been made on:
However this information is crucial to understand what may have happened that night. Equally if this training had been in place, this accident may have never happened.
Reading between the lines one can work out that the commander had flown an average of 134 hours per year (335/2.5), or 11.2 hours per month. The copilot had flown 100 hours in the last year, or 8.33 hours per month. Any suggestions on whether this is enough or not for night SAR?
How much do other SAR operations fly per year round the world?
May they rest in peace.
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/7..._statement.pdf
It's odd to notice that the CIAIAC have been fairly vague at the time of stating the crew training/qualifications, thus no comment has been made on:
- The fact that both pilots had a 'Single Pilot' type rating (No MCC training)
- None of the crew members were HUET trained.
However this information is crucial to understand what may have happened that night. Equally if this training had been in place, this accident may have never happened.
Reading between the lines one can work out that the commander had flown an average of 134 hours per year (335/2.5), or 11.2 hours per month. The copilot had flown 100 hours in the last year, or 8.33 hours per month. Any suggestions on whether this is enough or not for night SAR?
How much do other SAR operations fly per year round the world?
May they rest in peace.
It would seem their training was sufficient to complete the hard bit of the sortie ie the SAR training - but they managed to turn a simple transit back to base into an accident.
I am puzzled as to why they didn't have the height hold in - it maybe that the captain just wanted to fly the aircraft without all the automatics but you would expect him to monitor things far more carefully if that were so.
The number of ignored warnings that should have prompted recovery is rather worrying.
Very sad, RIP.
I am puzzled as to why they didn't have the height hold in - it maybe that the captain just wanted to fly the aircraft without all the automatics but you would expect him to monitor things far more carefully if that were so.
The number of ignored warnings that should have prompted recovery is rather worrying.
Very sad, RIP.