idiots with shotguns
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Western MA
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Regarding the thread’s title of “Idiots with shotguns” it should more accurately read, “Killers with shotguns” since someone is actually attempting murder when shooting at a human, regardless of what he/she is riding in. Whether intentional or not is for the court to decide. Or perhaps this shoe would fit better:”Law needed for idiots who fly downrange of gun ranges.” IMHO
Regarding shot sizes; An increasing number of professional bodyguards and private citizens with concealed carry permits are seeing the benefits of having the first pistol round being of a bird or rat shot type. It is aimed into the face of the perp causing an immediate and instinctive "hands to the face" reaction, especially with eye hit(s). With so many criminals wearing body armor these days and the birdshot not traveling too far past the perp causing collateral damage, the increased use of “bird/rat shot” is a smart move for up close, defensive shooting. The follow-up rounds are usually semi-jacketed hollow-points. Related, I understand the Philippine military did studies on this during WW2 on live Jap prisoners but eventually went to solids in their 45s since most of their shooting would be offensive. I personally carry two Glaser Safety slugs in my .357 S&W and ALWAYS practice face shots these days with the remaining 3 rounds being hollow points especially since I’m strictly carrying for defensive reasons.
Regarding shot sizes; An increasing number of professional bodyguards and private citizens with concealed carry permits are seeing the benefits of having the first pistol round being of a bird or rat shot type. It is aimed into the face of the perp causing an immediate and instinctive "hands to the face" reaction, especially with eye hit(s). With so many criminals wearing body armor these days and the birdshot not traveling too far past the perp causing collateral damage, the increased use of “bird/rat shot” is a smart move for up close, defensive shooting. The follow-up rounds are usually semi-jacketed hollow-points. Related, I understand the Philippine military did studies on this during WW2 on live Jap prisoners but eventually went to solids in their 45s since most of their shooting would be offensive. I personally carry two Glaser Safety slugs in my .357 S&W and ALWAYS practice face shots these days with the remaining 3 rounds being hollow points especially since I’m strictly carrying for defensive reasons.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Essex
Age: 54
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Hi Dan, in the UK there are a lot of private shoots which are not marked and take place on farmland - difficult to avoid until you see them. Generally you are too high for them anyway, but the original post was I think to do with the chances of being hit whilst on approach to land, by folk who were poor shots and might hit you by accident.
Military ranges (danger zones) are marked, have controlling agencies and are NOTAM'd.
It then developed in to what they would need to use in terms of ballistics in a shotgun to cause damage - then went off on a ballistics tangent - still interesting though to those of us who shoot.
In the UK (as civilians) gun laws are very strict and we are not allowed to carry fire-arms nor use anything larger than .22 live rounds on ranges unless we are using black powder pistols.
I love going over to the US for flying (PA) and while there our hosts always take us for sporting clays and target shooting with rifles/pistols.
Blue skies all
-Dee
Military ranges (danger zones) are marked, have controlling agencies and are NOTAM'd.
It then developed in to what they would need to use in terms of ballistics in a shotgun to cause damage - then went off on a ballistics tangent - still interesting though to those of us who shoot.
In the UK (as civilians) gun laws are very strict and we are not allowed to carry fire-arms nor use anything larger than .22 live rounds on ranges unless we are using black powder pistols.
I love going over to the US for flying (PA) and while there our hosts always take us for sporting clays and target shooting with rifles/pistols.
Blue skies all
-Dee
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kettering
Age: 49
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Sywell Airport in Northamptonshire has a shooting ground pretty much on its Northern edge. Not heard any reports of people picking up stray shot. The range is oriented such that the majority of shooting is towards the airfield (although there are high earth banks all round). Nothing larger than no 6 shot is permitted on the range and few people shoot anything larger than 7 or 7.5 anyway. All disciplines are available including ABT/DTL and sporting layouts (including a high tower). I'm sure if it were considered a risk then there would be an avoid on the site but no such advice exists to my knowledge.
I believe in UK law, any cartridge containing fewer than 3 or 4 projectiles counts as a Firearm (Class 1) rather than a Shotgun (Class 2) round and as such, the class 1 licence would be required
I believe in UK law, any cartridge containing fewer than 3 or 4 projectiles counts as a Firearm (Class 1) rather than a Shotgun (Class 2) round and as such, the class 1 licence would be required
I think that you may mean this, Bob:
ie the number of cartridges in the magazine, rather than the projectiles in the cartridge. Then again, maybe both.
from:
Firearms law
Another type of gun that is considered a ‘Section 1’ firearm is any shotgun with a barrel shorter than 24” or a semi-auto or pump-action gun with the capacity to hold more than two shells in the magazine
from:
Firearms law
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kettering
Age: 49
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From a police firearms friend of mine, any cartridge with a small number of pellets in it (3 or 4 from memory) essentially counts as a bullet and so you need a firearms licence and not a shotgun one to own them. You are right about the mag in a semi or pump. should be limited to 3 shells (including the one up the spout). No limit on calibre as far as I know but don't know of many using anything bigger than a 10-bore most of the time. The standard 'elephant gun' used to be a 4-bore but that was using black powder. You could probably down an elephant with a smaller bore and a slug round now, especially the rifled ones.
The numbers I was quoting in the other post are the shot sizes rather than the bore size. Most people use number 7 to 9 shot for clays. 6 or 5 for larger birds and bigger than that for the really big buggers. My clay instructor told me that a rifled slug round fired from a 12 bore has a range of 300 yards. Sounds eminently feasible to me
The numbers I was quoting in the other post are the shot sizes rather than the bore size. Most people use number 7 to 9 shot for clays. 6 or 5 for larger birds and bigger than that for the really big buggers. My clay instructor told me that a rifled slug round fired from a 12 bore has a range of 300 yards. Sounds eminently feasible to me
