Landing After Dark
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Far from home, but not far from here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Landing After Dark
Can anyone confirm if it is legal to land in a non night rated helicopter after the end of legal daylight?
Cheers
Chippy
Cheers
Chippy
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How very existensial of you cyclic flare 
Won't it depend on how powerful your torch is?
Cheers
Whirls
Won't it depend on how powerful your torch is?
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England & Scotland
Age: 63
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the prohibition relates to "flight" then the landing would mark the end of the prohibited activity. (marking it possibly with loud noises and (potentially) fire.) The approach and everything up to "skids down" would be illegal, but once "skids down" you are no in flight and no longer perpetrating an illegal act.
Hope that clarifies things.
Hope that clarifies things.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Far from home, but not far from here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well old Chippy can confirm a very senior UK chief pilot kept flying for 30 mins after dark in a non night rated machine and landed at an airport on the north side, he told his student that it was legal 'cos "it was a privilege of licence". But could only be for 30 mins maximum.
I told the student I had never heard of such a privilege, I guess student will now expect to land 30 mins after dark all the time, if he asks me to be his safety pilot, I certainly won't be agreeing to it, of course unless we just keep flying till it gets light again!!
Thanks for the comedy
Chippy
I told the student I had never heard of such a privilege, I guess student will now expect to land 30 mins after dark all the time, if he asks me to be his safety pilot, I certainly won't be agreeing to it, of course unless we just keep flying till it gets light again!!
Thanks for the comedy
Chippy
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All sounds rather mysterious. We aren't confusing night and sunset are we? The two being separated by 30 minutes, as mentioned above.
Most "senior chief pilots" would know the law and operate by it, especially if they were quoting it.
Most "senior chief pilots" would know the law and operate by it, especially if they were quoting it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 'oop North
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"As the prohibition relates to "flight" then the landing would mark the end of the prohibited activity. (marking it possibly with loud noises and (potentially) fire.) The approach and everything up to "skids down" would be illegal, but once "skids down" you are no in flight and no longer perpetrating an illegal act"
If we want to be really accurate, you are still officially "in flight" until the rotors have stopped.
If we want to be really accurate, you are still officially "in flight" until the rotors have stopped.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Far from home, but not far from here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helinut,
Can you please clarify? As I said in my first post, they landed 30 mins after the "end of legal daylight" (sunset) So are you saying you can continue to fly 30 mins after that and it is not considered night?
Cheers
Chippy
Can you please clarify? As I said in my first post, they landed 30 mins after the "end of legal daylight" (sunset) So are you saying you can continue to fly 30 mins after that and it is not considered night?
Cheers
Chippy
CC: We're all confused with your terminology. "Sunset" is an official expression with a set time in the tables. "Day" ends 30 mins after sunset and becomes "night".
Night ends 30 mins before sunrise - and day begins at that point.
Anyway, who cares what the guy did ?
Night ends 30 mins before sunrise - and day begins at that point.
Anyway, who cares what the guy did ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Far from home, but not far from here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks JimBall you have clarified the matter. I personally don't give a rats a about what he did I just want my friend to know what is legal and what is not, 'cos as sure as sh..t him being a PPL someone else will dump a load of cr..p on him if he does the slightest thing wrong. So really what he should have been told was what you posted.
Cheers again
Chippy
Cheers again
Chippy
Sunrise and sunset conventionally refer to the times when the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon, considered unobstructed relative to the location of interest. Atmospheric conditions are assumed to be average, and the location is in a level region on the Earth's surface.
Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of evening civil twilight.
Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.
Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.
Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of evening civil twilight.
Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.
Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.
Dytime is considered to be "from the beginning of morning civil twilight, to the end of evening civil twilight". Thus you can deduce that you are technically allowed to use the privileges of your NON-NIGHT rated license to fly for 30 minutes after sunset. after 31 minutes you are conisdered to be flying at night and NOT legal...
Cheers
H.
Cheers
H.