Eurocopter UK Engineers Walk Out?
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Eurocopter UK Engineers Walk Out?
These are as yet unconfirmed rumours but I have heard from two separate sources that the licensed engineers at ECUK are about to go on strike, or plan a walk out of some kind.
As far as i can gather this is in response to a planned change to their working routines and cut in their pay. I've always found the engineers to be very professional and hard working but my main concern is for the UK Police Forces that require ECUK engineers to attend call outs to their helicopters 24/7.
How will a period of no engineering cover effect us. Will we still get the same level of service if working routines are changed or engineers are getting paid less?
Can anyone shed some more light on this. Are there any ECUK engineers on this forum. Has anyone else heard anything about the reasons behind any action.
Your thoughts?
As far as i can gather this is in response to a planned change to their working routines and cut in their pay. I've always found the engineers to be very professional and hard working but my main concern is for the UK Police Forces that require ECUK engineers to attend call outs to their helicopters 24/7.
How will a period of no engineering cover effect us. Will we still get the same level of service if working routines are changed or engineers are getting paid less?
Can anyone shed some more light on this. Are there any ECUK engineers on this forum. Has anyone else heard anything about the reasons behind any action.
Your thoughts?
I'm not ECUK - but I used to regularly visit there as a customer.
ISTR that, when a denied service is contracted as part of a larger agreement (i.e. a police support service agreement) the provider management have a duty to sub-contract that service to other qualified engineers.
However; I'm not sure how many "qualified" (355, 135 and 145) engineers may be available for a potentially lucrative short-term contract.
If there are no engineers - you stop flying. Simple.
To start flying again:
1. The calendar items you have passed have to be complied with.
2. Any other maintenance actions also have to be complied with.
3. Dependant on the length of time "parked" you may be stuffed by further calendar items for short-term storage/maintenance. You may be able to conduct 10-minute storage runs to cycle engines, gearboxes and control runs. This may or may not count agains engine cycles (can't remember)
Time to dig out that dusty old contract and read it again!
...and if the service changes - shouldn't the costs change too?
I hope the guys there don't need to walk. But if they do, I hope this helps your plans.
ISTR that, when a denied service is contracted as part of a larger agreement (i.e. a police support service agreement) the provider management have a duty to sub-contract that service to other qualified engineers.
However; I'm not sure how many "qualified" (355, 135 and 145) engineers may be available for a potentially lucrative short-term contract.
If there are no engineers - you stop flying. Simple.
To start flying again:
1. The calendar items you have passed have to be complied with.
2. Any other maintenance actions also have to be complied with.
3. Dependant on the length of time "parked" you may be stuffed by further calendar items for short-term storage/maintenance. You may be able to conduct 10-minute storage runs to cycle engines, gearboxes and control runs. This may or may not count agains engine cycles (can't remember)
Time to dig out that dusty old contract and read it again!
...and if the service changes - shouldn't the costs change too?
I hope the guys there don't need to walk. But if they do, I hope this helps your plans.
Another triumph for a human resources 
department. Let's p!ss off the one part that actually provides most of the income for the company - and let's face it, at the moment, it certainly isn't the sales department - and then wonder why they all want to walk. Anyone who wants to walk away from a job in the current economical climate is either very p!ssed off or very in demand. In this case, I suspect it could be both. If ECUK need to make cuts then they should start in the boardroom and HR department.
department. Let's p!ss off the one part that actually provides most of the income for the company - and let's face it, at the moment, it certainly isn't the sales department - and then wonder why they all want to walk. Anyone who wants to walk away from a job in the current economical climate is either very p!ssed off or very in demand. In this case, I suspect it could be both. If ECUK need to make cuts then they should start in the boardroom and HR department.
Heard the following from a mate..
Apparently a couple of guys have already walked and another couple are about to resign.
From what I was told its to do with the guys losing their overtime payments for time off in lieu, they can only accrue so many hours and must use them up before a certain time. The Company are apparently looking at sending guys home if they have no work and taking that off their accrued time. The possibilities are that they could also send you home, and you would then owe them days!
Guess that could mean no more w-end work, and guys refusing to work past the end of the working day..
Apparently a couple of guys have already walked and another couple are about to resign.
From what I was told its to do with the guys losing their overtime payments for time off in lieu, they can only accrue so many hours and must use them up before a certain time. The Company are apparently looking at sending guys home if they have no work and taking that off their accrued time. The possibilities are that they could also send you home, and you would then owe them days!
Guess that could mean no more w-end work, and guys refusing to work past the end of the working day..
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I have worked with a number of the engineers at ECUK and they are a professional lot who do their utmost to keep the customer happy unfortunately though their arms are being tied behind their backs a lot of the time by headoffice.
Anyone thought about the flightsafety aspect?????
Also ECUK were never flush with engineers in the first place so how does management think they will accomplish all that maintenance when you don't have enough hours in the day??
The two engineers walking has been confirmed to me.
I have always been of the opinion engineers are under paid and most definitely under valued by the management and the industry in my humble opinion.
Anyone thought about the flightsafety aspect?????
Also ECUK were never flush with engineers in the first place so how does management think they will accomplish all that maintenance when you don't have enough hours in the day??
The two engineers walking has been confirmed to me.
I have always been of the opinion engineers are under paid and most definitely under valued by the management and the industry in my humble opinion.
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It had to happen eventually...
Employ engineers on a 37.5 hr week (5 days a week) and use them to support 24/7 contracts......of course the o/t bill is going to start adding up!!
Can't blame the engineers myself.....flexibility and loyalty only goes so far.
Employ engineers on a 37.5 hr week (5 days a week) and use them to support 24/7 contracts......of course the o/t bill is going to start adding up!!
Can't blame the engineers myself.....flexibility and loyalty only goes so far.
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un-happy staff
What is really upsetting for the staff is……
when Eurocopter took over McAlpine Helicopters in Oct 2007 the staff where told it would not change any thing!!! that Eurocopter had acquired McA’s due to the high standards achieved by the employees and that it was one of if not the top bespoke centre in the world……
So what has changed?
For a start the employees respect for the owners…… McApine’s didn’t always get everything right but they did try to keep the staff happy. And the staff responded…… with the aircraft produced….. This was not always on time! However was always to the very highest standards.
Now what have the employees lost in the last 2 years???
It is just funny when in October we signed a MOD contract for Ł220m that things look so bad
when the Managing Director of Eurocopter UK, said, "As the British pillar of the Eurocopter Group, we are proud to sign this major contract strengthening our industrial expansion in the UK even more and enabling us to develop a widening partnership with the MoD, also in view of forthcoming new helicopter programmes such as Future Medium Helicopter (FMH)."
I think that may have just got me my P45…… so farewell PPRuNe.
when Eurocopter took over McAlpine Helicopters in Oct 2007 the staff where told it would not change any thing!!! that Eurocopter had acquired McA’s due to the high standards achieved by the employees and that it was one of if not the top bespoke centre in the world……
So what has changed?
For a start the employees respect for the owners…… McApine’s didn’t always get everything right but they did try to keep the staff happy. And the staff responded…… with the aircraft produced….. This was not always on time! However was always to the very highest standards.
Now what have the employees lost in the last 2 years???
- The respect of the owners…… its now shut up and put up or leave…… we have lost our voice…
- The things that motivated the employees into the great team we had…. The sports, Car Parking, Subsidised Lunch Allowance, Charity Events, Summer BBQ, Xmas bottle, Xmas Lunch and now even the Post Xmas Party. All the things that made McA’s a good place to work.
- Now we are losing our paid overtime for time Banking, work an hour at 3am in the rain or snow in the middle of a field and we will give you an hour back….. but oh yeah when it suits ECUK by the way……. And if we have no work for you we will send you home…… but you owe ECUK all the time back to suit US……. Oh and if you don’t like it (oh well leave).
- Then today it’s there are to be no pay rise in January (understandable)
- So what for the future of ECUK employees…… well we have to look forward to seeing what’s going to happen to the sick pay, pension, life insurance oh and how long before the free coffee machines are gone?
It is just funny when in October we signed a MOD contract for Ł220m that things look so bad
when the Managing Director of Eurocopter UK, said, "As the British pillar of the Eurocopter Group, we are proud to sign this major contract strengthening our industrial expansion in the UK even more and enabling us to develop a widening partnership with the MoD, also in view of forthcoming new helicopter programmes such as Future Medium Helicopter (FMH)."
I think that may have just got me my P45…… so farewell PPRuNe.
This may be happening in more places than just ECUK nee Mac's.
I think EC might be just waking up to the fact that there might actually be some cash in servicing the aircraft they have sold. Sound like a familiar story? IBM became a service company. BMW/Merc/Audi etc offer a service package just to keep you in the family as a repeat customer.
EC have/are purchasing a few maintenance organisations around Europe. Where it will unravel is for the reasons mentioned here. People who have personally built reputations in service and support will have the rug pulled and be given a number. I have heard this grievance many times.
They are entering a field which honestly they and the people that work in the hierarchy know very little about.
People with degrees hardly get their hands dirty. Its the folk at the coal face who get the job done. This is where Mac's and others like them were good.
EC service and support has improved but there is still a lot to be done to get near the gold standard. In the past they would rather not do it. Now things may have changed.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but he's f%cked when the chain comes off!
The other problem they need to be careful of is the staff walking and taking the customers with them.
I think EC might be just waking up to the fact that there might actually be some cash in servicing the aircraft they have sold. Sound like a familiar story? IBM became a service company. BMW/Merc/Audi etc offer a service package just to keep you in the family as a repeat customer.
EC have/are purchasing a few maintenance organisations around Europe. Where it will unravel is for the reasons mentioned here. People who have personally built reputations in service and support will have the rug pulled and be given a number. I have heard this grievance many times.
They are entering a field which honestly they and the people that work in the hierarchy know very little about.
People with degrees hardly get their hands dirty. Its the folk at the coal face who get the job done. This is where Mac's and others like them were good.
EC service and support has improved but there is still a lot to be done to get near the gold standard. In the past they would rather not do it. Now things may have changed.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but he's f%cked when the chain comes off!
The other problem they need to be careful of is the staff walking and taking the customers with them.
mmm...
Methinks that, with a coverall brand like "Eurocopter", it wouldn't be too difficult to move 'specialists' around europe to maintain the availability of important positions for important contracts. After all ECF and ECD do have a lot of maintenance specialists. Is there a EC Lithuania?
Perhaps a keen eye should be kept on the UK staff lists...money being a driving force for many companies under financial stress.
Methinks that, with a coverall brand like "Eurocopter", it wouldn't be too difficult to move 'specialists' around europe to maintain the availability of important positions for important contracts. After all ECF and ECD do have a lot of maintenance specialists. Is there a EC Lithuania?
Perhaps a keen eye should be kept on the UK staff lists...money being a driving force for many companies under financial stress.
JIM that will give you more time for the important things in life like fishing shooting and drinking !!!! Hows the weather out there ?
ps i am so glad i dont have my 350 anymore !!!!!!! Nigel
ps i am so glad i dont have my 350 anymore !!!!!!! Nigel
Well Jim McA
If that's the case why use a name that suggests otherwise?
I've not seen James for many years but from what I remember, a damned nice bloke, has he got anything to do with the current events?
TeeS
If that's the case why use a name that suggests otherwise?
I've not seen James for many years but from what I remember, a damned nice bloke, has he got anything to do with the current events?
TeeS
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The name came to mind as I for one wished the Mcalpine family still owned the company……..
From what I know James is doing very well he now lives in The Bahamas / Florida and is driving The A1GP safety car………….
If you know him I’m sure you could find him on try facebook……..
From what I know James is doing very well he now lives in The Bahamas / Florida and is driving The A1GP safety car………….
If you know him I’m sure you could find him on try facebook……..
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So can I ask which one of the Eurocopter UK director’s you are Svenestron?
No one said that the rest of Eurocopter have BBQ, Xmas Parties etc, However I was there when we were told by "Markus Steinke, Managing Director of Eurocopter UK", that NOTHING would change "funny thing during a Xmas party",
We all knew changes would happen but its has just been take, take, take, From Eurocopter, with the work force getting anything back.
The engineers have worked so hard over the last 2 years to get projects / Aircraft out on time deadline pushed to the limits, having to work shifts or 60 hours a week……. But it’s been done…..
so what do we then get our contracts have changed from….
In the event of your being required to work for more then 37.5 hours in any one working week, an allowance will be made at the desecration of your department manager for each additional hour worked. This allowance will normally be 1.5 times your hourly rate. However, between 9.00pm and 6.00am the allowance will be 2x your hourly rate. For these purposes the hourly rate is your grows annual salary divided by 52 and 37.5......
To read
A time banking system will operate to capture extra hour’s worked and/or short falls during the normal working week of 37.5 hours. With reasonable notice, you may be required to work at the weekend, hours will be credited/debited on a one for one basis, and resource allocation will be at the discretion of your manager. Overtime will no longer be paid, basic salaries are to be paid throughout the operation of the scheme.
It also says extra hours worked will be banked at single time in personal time accounts in the new time bank, the maximum number of accrued hours is +75. Managers are responsible for reducing these surplus hours when practicable. When there is no work, managers can instruct staff to go home/stay at home. The maximum number of deficit hours-75 managers are responsible for the reallocation of these hours by giving reasonable notice to staff that they are required to work additional hours to reduce the amount they owe. if staff are rostered to remain at home in blocks (eg 1 week) that will not be expected to be available for that period, although they can agree to come to work if contacted.
We are now writing to seek your express agreement to the proposed change to your contract of employment, ……..Something sold to us as short term!!
And as for the rest of the Eurocopter group I don’t see ECUK getting all of August or 2 weeks at Xmas in line with the group???
No one said that the rest of Eurocopter have BBQ, Xmas Parties etc, However I was there when we were told by "Markus Steinke, Managing Director of Eurocopter UK", that NOTHING would change "funny thing during a Xmas party",
We all knew changes would happen but its has just been take, take, take, From Eurocopter, with the work force getting anything back.
The engineers have worked so hard over the last 2 years to get projects / Aircraft out on time deadline pushed to the limits, having to work shifts or 60 hours a week……. But it’s been done…..
so what do we then get our contracts have changed from….
In the event of your being required to work for more then 37.5 hours in any one working week, an allowance will be made at the desecration of your department manager for each additional hour worked. This allowance will normally be 1.5 times your hourly rate. However, between 9.00pm and 6.00am the allowance will be 2x your hourly rate. For these purposes the hourly rate is your grows annual salary divided by 52 and 37.5......
To read
A time banking system will operate to capture extra hour’s worked and/or short falls during the normal working week of 37.5 hours. With reasonable notice, you may be required to work at the weekend, hours will be credited/debited on a one for one basis, and resource allocation will be at the discretion of your manager. Overtime will no longer be paid, basic salaries are to be paid throughout the operation of the scheme.
It also says extra hours worked will be banked at single time in personal time accounts in the new time bank, the maximum number of accrued hours is +75. Managers are responsible for reducing these surplus hours when practicable. When there is no work, managers can instruct staff to go home/stay at home. The maximum number of deficit hours-75 managers are responsible for the reallocation of these hours by giving reasonable notice to staff that they are required to work additional hours to reduce the amount they owe. if staff are rostered to remain at home in blocks (eg 1 week) that will not be expected to be available for that period, although they can agree to come to work if contacted.
We are now writing to seek your express agreement to the proposed change to your contract of employment, ……..Something sold to us as short term!!
And as for the rest of the Eurocopter group I don’t see ECUK getting all of August or 2 weeks at Xmas in line with the group???
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Its Funny I always thought that UK employment standards were more rigid than in Canada . Obviously not now. This would be illegal in Canada. Any hours in excess of 44 in anyone week must be paid at 1.5 hourly rate , Sunday at 2.0 and public holidays at 2.5. There are also regulations concerning maximum hours and time between shifts. This applies to all permenant workers ( not managers ). There are also some rules on reductions in work week.
On the down side ,paid vacations start at 10 days per years , after you have accumulated them ( ie no paid vacation first year of work It was a bit of an adjustment) . Laying off people is much easier ( if defines as temporary with no compensation ), there is not regulation on paid sick days .
EC Canada had Great Christmas Parties for adults and kids ( not sure now ) and in the dim distant past a family day with BBQ and helicopter rides . Give my best to Markus , I always found him a straight shooter.
On the down side ,paid vacations start at 10 days per years , after you have accumulated them ( ie no paid vacation first year of work It was a bit of an adjustment) . Laying off people is much easier ( if defines as temporary with no compensation ), there is not regulation on paid sick days .
EC Canada had Great Christmas Parties for adults and kids ( not sure now ) and in the dim distant past a family day with BBQ and helicopter rides . Give my best to Markus , I always found him a straight shooter.
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So what happens when the majority of the work force is maxed on +75 hrs and they still want you to work? It's going to happen if guys with key types on their license walk and leave gaps in the workforce resources.