R22 takes off with pilot in pursuit and crashes.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The land of the cranberry
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What an idiot? I hope he is not allowed near an aircraft again for a long while, if ever.
I'm sure he would have been able to do great thorough inspection on the tail rotor alright. I'll take those odds too!
I'm sure he would have been able to do great thorough inspection on the tail rotor alright. I'll take those odds too!
Ok.... we all agree that this chap is a §$%&/, but what are the legal implications?
Will he lose his license? If this happened in a populated area and the "Phantom 22" killed someone, would he be up for murder...
Will he be liable for the total cost of the 22 as I am sure the insurance won't pay a cent?
Will he lose his license? If this happened in a populated area and the "Phantom 22" killed someone, would he be up for murder...
Will he be liable for the total cost of the 22 as I am sure the insurance won't pay a cent?
Okay boys and girls, SIMMA DOWN! Get off yer high horsies.
The old guy landed on an interesting little island. I'd love to land there too! You have a computer - google it. It's cool. Trouble is, it's a Florida state park which probably has some regulation against such things. Anyway, the geezer says that he had a problem and needed to "check the tail rotor." Yeah, uh-huh. Sure. Come on, pops, there were plenty of OTHER, better places to land in that case - some of them within gliding distance - like US1 for instance? I mean, if you *really* had a problem, how hard was it going to be getting help on that ISLAND?!
Okay, let's admit it, there was no "tail rotor problem." Either he had to have a whiz or just wanted to land for some reason, maybe just to explore the island. Who knows?
So he lands and gets out. This, in and of itself is NOT dangerous or risky. Not if you do it right. But he didn't. He didn't roll the throttle to idle, or shut down even. He didn't put the collective friction on. And then - surprise, surprise! - the machine tried to fly away. It didn't get far.
It was a Saturday. There were probably PLENTY of boaters around that island. Somebody saw it happen, went to his rescue and called Robbie's (heh-heh) Marina to send a boat over to take the guy to the hospital. He is probably resting uncomfortably at home, pondering his broken arm and wondering if he is now on the hook for the cost of an R-22? (Did he get Kathleen Bergen to sign his cast?)
And while he did break his arm, as far a breaking any FAR's...well...surprisingly, astoundingly, UNBELIEVABLY!!!...there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did. Flight was obviously not intended, so the FAA can't really classify it as an accident. And AS WE ALL KNOW, "flight" ends when the skids touch down (according to the very same FAA) so it doesn't even matter than he was kind of still in the middle of a local rental flight.
The FAA will likely say, "Tough luck about your arm, mate! Be more careful next time!" Or they might violate him with their catchall "careless and reckless" (FAR 91.13) deal - but even the wording of that is pretty vague. Was he "operating an aircraft for the purpose of air navigation?" Well, nooooooo. A good lawyer could (maybe) get him off if the FAA goes that route.
The Florida State Park Service will be another matter. He'll have to answer to them - for whatever penalties they can levy. He'll probably have to cough up the money to have it removed - tout de suite! - from the island.
Insurance-wise...who knows? They might cover it or might not. No telling, really.
You know, whenever I get out of my helicopter while it's running, I often fear that it's going to just...you know...fall right over. And in fact, another Robbie did just that in California last week:
http://www.faa.gov/data_research/acc...a/K_1127_N.txt
Of course, we don't know if that one was running or not...
The old guy landed on an interesting little island. I'd love to land there too! You have a computer - google it. It's cool. Trouble is, it's a Florida state park which probably has some regulation against such things. Anyway, the geezer says that he had a problem and needed to "check the tail rotor." Yeah, uh-huh. Sure. Come on, pops, there were plenty of OTHER, better places to land in that case - some of them within gliding distance - like US1 for instance? I mean, if you *really* had a problem, how hard was it going to be getting help on that ISLAND?!
Okay, let's admit it, there was no "tail rotor problem." Either he had to have a whiz or just wanted to land for some reason, maybe just to explore the island. Who knows?
So he lands and gets out. This, in and of itself is NOT dangerous or risky. Not if you do it right. But he didn't. He didn't roll the throttle to idle, or shut down even. He didn't put the collective friction on. And then - surprise, surprise! - the machine tried to fly away. It didn't get far.
It was a Saturday. There were probably PLENTY of boaters around that island. Somebody saw it happen, went to his rescue and called Robbie's (heh-heh) Marina to send a boat over to take the guy to the hospital. He is probably resting uncomfortably at home, pondering his broken arm and wondering if he is now on the hook for the cost of an R-22? (Did he get Kathleen Bergen to sign his cast?)
And while he did break his arm, as far a breaking any FAR's...well...surprisingly, astoundingly, UNBELIEVABLY!!!...there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did. Flight was obviously not intended, so the FAA can't really classify it as an accident. And AS WE ALL KNOW, "flight" ends when the skids touch down (according to the very same FAA) so it doesn't even matter than he was kind of still in the middle of a local rental flight.
The FAA will likely say, "Tough luck about your arm, mate! Be more careful next time!" Or they might violate him with their catchall "careless and reckless" (FAR 91.13) deal - but even the wording of that is pretty vague. Was he "operating an aircraft for the purpose of air navigation?" Well, nooooooo. A good lawyer could (maybe) get him off if the FAA goes that route.
The Florida State Park Service will be another matter. He'll have to answer to them - for whatever penalties they can levy. He'll probably have to cough up the money to have it removed - tout de suite! - from the island.
Insurance-wise...who knows? They might cover it or might not. No telling, really.
You know, whenever I get out of my helicopter while it's running, I often fear that it's going to just...you know...fall right over. And in fact, another Robbie did just that in California last week:
http://www.faa.gov/data_research/acc...a/K_1127_N.txt
Of course, we don't know if that one was running or not...
Moderator
breaking any FAR's...well...surprisingly, astoundingly, UNBELIEVABLY!!!...there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did
602.10 (1) No person shall start an engine of an aircraft unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft;
(b) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving; or
(c) in the case of a seaplane, the aircraft is in a location from which any movement of the aircraft will not endanger persons or property.
(2) No person shall leave an engine of an aircraft running unless
(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft; or
(b) where no persons are on board the aircraft,
(i) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving, and
(ii) the aircraft is not left unattended.
In Canada, a helicopter falls within the definition of an "aircraft". I don't know the FAR's as well, but I bet there is similar wording in those regulations too.
I know it goes on all the time, but during my modest helicopter flying career, I have only once left the pilot's seat with anything turning, much less running, and that was under the specfic instruction of the check pilot. I am not at ease with the practice myself - I'd rather wait. (rotor brake makes the wait more preasurable though!)
Pilot DAR
as far a breaking any FAR's there are *no* regulations that specifically prohibit what he did.
And AS WE ALL KNOW, "flight" ends when the skids touch down (according to the very same FAA)
I happen to know that you CAN be violated for leaving the controls of an aircraft---even though it is done legally. In Hawaii, we would hot load and refuel every day. We would also get out and leave the controls unattended to check for "fuel levels, oil levels, seatbelts, headsets, etc"---these words were written into our FAA approved 135 manual. We were allowed to leave the "immediate vicinity" of the aircraft for "blue room" breaks when our trained ground crew would do a control hold.
I happen to know of a pilot..
who took a 10 day vacation based upon the FAA's definition of the word "etc". He was leaning on the door waiting for the "trained ground crew" after having checked "fuel levels, oil levels, seatbelts, headsets, etc", and was charged with FAR 61.13.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington USA
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No FAR violation?
What about 91.9(a):
...no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations...
The limitations section requires a minimum crew of one pilot.
...no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations...
The limitations section requires a minimum crew of one pilot.
§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
PILOT: Nuh-uhhh! No way, dude! This is sooooooooo bogus. I was done aviating! I wasn't operating it, Slick. I was shutting down, man...there was no air navigating going on! And what's air navigation, anyway? What kind of bullsh*t is that? Cut me some slack, Jack.
FAA GUY: Errrr....what? SHUT UP! Why I oughtta...I should violate you for incredible stupidity. Oh if only...if only!
He wasn't at an airport. He was out in the middle of nowhere on a deserted island. He's like, 90 years old. If the FAA violates him, that FSDO is seriously underworked.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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This talk of the FAA and it's staff "violating" pilots brings tears to my eyes, as it must do to those unfortunate enough to be on the recieving end - though the end of what I hardly dare to imagine. Yuk!
Do these violations occur after due legal process and with a doctor present, or are they hurried fumbles behind a bush in the field, or on the back seat...???
Seems a strange way to deal with offenders no matter how the deed is done.
Kinky bastard!
Do these violations occur after due legal process and with a doctor present, or are they hurried fumbles behind a bush in the field, or on the back seat...???
Seems a strange way to deal with offenders no matter how the deed is done.
Why I oughtta...I should violate you for incredible stupidity. Oh if only...if only!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LEAX, Spain
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Allow your ship to go flying by itself will get you into big trouble here in Spain. Apart from everything mentioned above you'll get done for not having filed a flight plan. You even need one to fly circuits thanks to Franco 
Anyway, in my book the captain is always in command from the moment you roll the thing out the hangar doors, not when the skids leave the ground. The guy acted as a grade-A pelican whose greatest contribution has been to drive everyone's Robinson insurance premium north.
Cheers Mate
Anyway, in my book the captain is always in command from the moment you roll the thing out the hangar doors, not when the skids leave the ground. The guy acted as a grade-A pelican whose greatest contribution has been to drive everyone's Robinson insurance premium north.
Cheers Mate
oil levels
Which levels do you check with the aircraft running?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Townsend,WA. USA
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Pilots often come up with some rather strange stories to explain how the aircraft got all twisted and bent. Usually the pilot has no fault and blames the aircraft design or some unfortunate mechanic.
He might have invented a better story than this, I think. (assuming this was a real event)
He might have invented a better story than this, I think. (assuming this was a real event
)
