Consequences of FAA certificate suspension?
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Consequences of FAA certificate suspension?
Hi all,
I was doing a FARs ground with a student today and we were going through the whole "8 hours bottle to throttle" thing regarding alcohol. We got talking about certificate suspension or revocation in the event of not providing a sample upon request. He asked me about the consequences of getting suspended as far as a career in aviation goes. As I haven't come across anyone that has been suspended yet, I was unable to answer him properly. I ventured a guess that employers would take certain things more seriously than others, say getting a DUI being worse than say busting airspace or a TFR.
So has anyone any personal experience in this area, and how has it affected your ability to get work afterwards. Is it a problem getting insured afterwards or anything like that. And is a suspension, a suspension? Does it matter what you got suspended for?
I was doing a FARs ground with a student today and we were going through the whole "8 hours bottle to throttle" thing regarding alcohol. We got talking about certificate suspension or revocation in the event of not providing a sample upon request. He asked me about the consequences of getting suspended as far as a career in aviation goes. As I haven't come across anyone that has been suspended yet, I was unable to answer him properly. I ventured a guess that employers would take certain things more seriously than others, say getting a DUI being worse than say busting airspace or a TFR.
So has anyone any personal experience in this area, and how has it affected your ability to get work afterwards. Is it a problem getting insured afterwards or anything like that. And is a suspension, a suspension? Does it matter what you got suspended for?
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Two of my friends had their tickets suspended back in the '80s. (Different events, even.) One went on to fly for an ANG unit. The other, after a much longer period become a training pilot at a regional. I would think a similar outcome in today's environment would be highly unlikely.
J.
J.
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This was in the AvWeb Biz issue today:
FAA TIGHTENS RULES ON PILOT DUI
The FAA has tightened up its treatment of pilots convicted of alcohol-related driving offenses. In the latest issue (PDF) of the Federal Air Surgeon's Medical Bulletin, AMEs are advised that first-time DUI and DWI offenders don't necessarily escape the agency's scrutiny as they have in the past. Under the new rules, anyone whose blood-alcohol content was measured at higher than .15 percent or who refused to provide a sample will automatically have their case referred by the AME to FAA headquarters. The FAA medics will then insist that the pilot applicant undergo a substance abuse assessment. Previously, on first offenses, AMEs had to review court records and make the call on whether the applicant had a problem. It's been suggested the tougher rules might tempt offenders to lie about it on their medical but that will likely make things worse. More...
FAA TIGHTENS RULES ON PILOT DUI
The FAA has tightened up its treatment of pilots convicted of alcohol-related driving offenses. In the latest issue (PDF) of the Federal Air Surgeon's Medical Bulletin, AMEs are advised that first-time DUI and DWI offenders don't necessarily escape the agency's scrutiny as they have in the past. Under the new rules, anyone whose blood-alcohol content was measured at higher than .15 percent or who refused to provide a sample will automatically have their case referred by the AME to FAA headquarters. The FAA medics will then insist that the pilot applicant undergo a substance abuse assessment. Previously, on first offenses, AMEs had to review court records and make the call on whether the applicant had a problem. It's been suggested the tougher rules might tempt offenders to lie about it on their medical but that will likely make things worse. More...
All Part 135 companies will conduct a check of your FAA records prior to hire so trying to evade any discussion on the matter with your perspective employer at the time of the interview will only come back to haunt you later when you are asked to explain.
Most companies,USFS,CDF and OAS have an application question "have you ever had your licence suspended or revoked in the last 5 years?" so, being anything but upfront will only make matters worse.
The severity of any suspension will carry some weight on your hireability. The worst case being Drugs, Alcohol related suspensions. As for Insurance their (insurance) concern would be accident related incidents, but may well include Drugs and Alcohol now.
You cannot bury your head in the sand and hope noboby finds out, so my advice is to be very up front during the interview (when it becomes evident they are interested in you), let them know your records will show a suspension and explain why and how the suspension came about.
Better to not be selected during the interview process than fired (released) during initial training because you failed to disclose the suspension.
As a former CP I would not rule out the possibility of employing an individual just because he screwed up, I would have concerns if I was left to find out through a record search and the seriousness of the suspension. Afterall if you failed to be up front with me at the start of your job what makes me think you are arn't going to cover up other incidents down the road ie Drinking, Drugs,Over Torque, Temp. The list goes on.
One last thought on this. CP's talk to each other, we work in a small industry and you would be suprized how many people, know people, who know people. I only say that because as your posts states this was a CFI/Student discussion which makes me believe you are both relitively new to our industry.
Hopefully this subject is based on "enquiring minds want to know" rather than facing an existing problem. If its the EMWTK, welcome to the fraternity and we all hope you both have uneventfull yet rewarding careers. If its the latter, well you may have an uphill struggle getting that first job following the suspension, be honest and hope they like you. Remember your candid openness can also be seen as you have accepted your punishment and will continue to be open and forthright making you an asset to the company.
Most companies,USFS,CDF and OAS have an application question "have you ever had your licence suspended or revoked in the last 5 years?" so, being anything but upfront will only make matters worse.
The severity of any suspension will carry some weight on your hireability. The worst case being Drugs, Alcohol related suspensions. As for Insurance their (insurance) concern would be accident related incidents, but may well include Drugs and Alcohol now.
You cannot bury your head in the sand and hope noboby finds out, so my advice is to be very up front during the interview (when it becomes evident they are interested in you), let them know your records will show a suspension and explain why and how the suspension came about.
Better to not be selected during the interview process than fired (released) during initial training because you failed to disclose the suspension.
As a former CP I would not rule out the possibility of employing an individual just because he screwed up, I would have concerns if I was left to find out through a record search and the seriousness of the suspension. Afterall if you failed to be up front with me at the start of your job what makes me think you are arn't going to cover up other incidents down the road ie Drinking, Drugs,Over Torque, Temp. The list goes on.
One last thought on this. CP's talk to each other, we work in a small industry and you would be suprized how many people, know people, who know people. I only say that because as your posts states this was a CFI/Student discussion which makes me believe you are both relitively new to our industry.
Hopefully this subject is based on "enquiring minds want to know" rather than facing an existing problem. If its the EMWTK, welcome to the fraternity and we all hope you both have uneventfull yet rewarding careers. If its the latter, well you may have an uphill struggle getting that first job following the suspension, be honest and hope they like you. Remember your candid openness can also be seen as you have accepted your punishment and will continue to be open and forthright making you an asset to the company.
Suspensions are struck from your official record after 5 years, however as inmate stated, this is a small industry. I have often sat down with other pilots and played the "Kevin Bacon" game---as in link to someone in 5 moves. If I do not know a pilot personally, I can find someone I know who knows them personally with in 5 phone calls. Scary huh?? (That does not include newer people with less than 1500 hours).
I do have experience with this issue and can tell you that if you are hones, it will not be a problem. Mine were not alcohol or drug related however---this may be a little more serious.
I do have experience with this issue and can tell you that if you are hones, it will not be a problem. Mine were not alcohol or drug related however---this may be a little more serious.
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Good info guys. Thats kinda what I was expecting to hear. I figured the alcohol & drugs offenses would be worse as they are blatant disregard for the rules, whereas others can be accidental(depending on the situation I suppose).
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On a slightly different but related note, I was recently told if you were having a nice Friday BBQ down on the ramp with aircraft about (that Jet-A1 really helps with the ambiance, though the 100LL to start the fire), and decided to have a refreshing beer (or beverage of your choice, not to be discriminatory) that you greatly deserved after a long weeks work (assuming you were both lucky enough to have your week end on a Friday, and be rewarded by a bbq 
), that you could be done in by the FAA for "flying under the influence" or what ever the FAA equivalent is for DUI, merely because you are on a ramp with aircraft, even if your shift was over and you were not intending to fly.
Truth, or Stranger than Fiction? Discuss.
), that you could be done in by the FAA for "flying under the influence" or what ever the FAA equivalent is for DUI, merely because you are on a ramp with aircraft, even if your shift was over and you were not intending to fly.Truth, or Stranger than Fiction? Discuss.
