Does the Puppy get saved too?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 103
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From: Australia sometimes
Does the Puppy get saved too?
Question for the SAR guy's 'n' Gals.
You find yourself over a vessel in distress, with winch recovery of those onboard as the only reasonable option available. Conditions are suitably benign as to make the winch a relatively straightforward event until the last survivor refuses to leave without taking the family dog (cat?) Do you winch the dog. Is it strictly legal? If so, how do you secure the animal? Do you have a dispensation to allow this?
Cheers,
Scattercat
You find yourself over a vessel in distress, with winch recovery of those onboard as the only reasonable option available. Conditions are suitably benign as to make the winch a relatively straightforward event until the last survivor refuses to leave without taking the family dog (cat?) Do you winch the dog. Is it strictly legal? If so, how do you secure the animal? Do you have a dispensation to allow this?
Cheers,
Scattercat
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Perth, Australia
Scattercat,
Few options:
1. Lose the cat/dog
2. Try and get winchman to carry in up with a winch
3. Shoot the dog/cat
4. Feed the great white circling the boat.
5. Winch it up by the lead or put it in a sack
Cheers
Few options:
1. Lose the cat/dog
2. Try and get winchman to carry in up with a winch
3. Shoot the dog/cat
4. Feed the great white circling the boat.
5. Winch it up by the lead or put it in a sack
Cheers
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Doing SAR somewhere.
I guess this depends greatly if the mission conditions warrant or not the dog rescue although a very important factor on this are the feelings that either the winch operator and the rescue swimer have related to dogs.
While some of them, do not like them and consider dogs just a nuisance not even worth the effort to consider a rescue, others would surely volunteer to do the rescue and take risks in order to do so.
If you ask me I would like to try to rescue them as long as they can be handled.
I have dogs and I love dogs and I cannot imagine the pain of some survivor being rescued and seen his friend (dog) being abandoned to die.
One time I made a joke to a rescue swimer when discussing about this very scenario and he told me he was not willing to winch a dog so I told him that either he attach the dog to the winch or nobody else is winched up to my helo , including himself. He dind't like the joke. (I even wonder if it was really a joke
)
In my very personal opinion, we should try to rescue them as long as the conditions allow so and of course the dog collaborates somehow.
While some of them, do not like them and consider dogs just a nuisance not even worth the effort to consider a rescue, others would surely volunteer to do the rescue and take risks in order to do so.
If you ask me I would like to try to rescue them as long as they can be handled.
I have dogs and I love dogs and I cannot imagine the pain of some survivor being rescued and seen his friend (dog) being abandoned to die.
One time I made a joke to a rescue swimer when discussing about this very scenario and he told me he was not willing to winch a dog so I told him that either he attach the dog to the winch or nobody else is winched up to my helo , including himself. He dind't like the joke. (I even wonder if it was really a joke
)In my very personal opinion, we should try to rescue them as long as the conditions allow so and of course the dog collaborates somehow.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 343
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From: airport
No dog gets left behind!
Reminds me of a Hollywood movie that I never saw (wife told me about the story). Some dudes have to evacuate base on south pole because of stormy weather. Aircraft full or weight limit reached whatever, so dogs get left behind. They return to the south pole after a half year via helicopter to rescue their sledge dogs... (who were patiently waiting right where they told them to wait)
Eight Below (2006) - Synopsis
Eight Below (2006) - Synopsis
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 38
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From: miami
If the mutt poses a challenge to the rescue swimmer, then chalk it up to darwinism and step away. Haven't had a case yet where we left one behind though, they seem to be a none issue (and the photo is worth all kinds of good press if you can get it). I'm indifferent to cats, I wouldn't give any instructions to a rescue swimmer either way...but if the swimmer comes up with one attached to him and it finds it way up in the cockpit with it's claws out it will likely end up swimming again
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.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Being a sailor....and man servant to the Ship's Cat, I can assure you all you would want to do is get unattached from said Cat.
Once freed from the warm loving embrace of a panic stricken feline....most folks just wish to remain a safe distance from the furry little rascal with four paws full of switch blades and try to get the flow of blood stopped.
I do not wish to think of how a Cat would take to being winched from a sinking vessel...onto a helicopter....somehow I think he would be rather un-amused and more than a bit testy!
The SAR Crew that accomplishes that deserves an award for Bravery....and probably Wound Medals!
Once freed from the warm loving embrace of a panic stricken feline....most folks just wish to remain a safe distance from the furry little rascal with four paws full of switch blades and try to get the flow of blood stopped.
I do not wish to think of how a Cat would take to being winched from a sinking vessel...onto a helicopter....somehow I think he would be rather un-amused and more than a bit testy!
The SAR Crew that accomplishes that deserves an award for Bravery....and probably Wound Medals!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 105
Likes: 2
From: ABZshire
Animals on sea going vessels should be harnessed as a matter of course, thus recoverable. On that basis ( and with some degree of bitterness ) rescue the dog as quick to clip on and it will not want to retrieve personal effects, unlike some ungratefull crew members ....
RIP Bill Deacon
RIP Bill Deacon
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Below Escape Velocity
Two tales from Hawai'i...
A small cargo ship had a fire aboard and the crew abandoned ship some distance offshore... all but the dog. The fire ultimately self-extinguished. Currents being what they are, it took some days to get anyone to the ship to salvage it, which was drifting about in the Central Pacific. The dog was located aboard, none the worse for wear and was brought back to Honolulu and reunited with the ship's Chinese captain. This human interest story made the papers and TV news, and the captain was asked the dog's name. The cynical among us believed it had been changed from: "Dinner".
One fine day I had duty, but wasn't flying. One of the other helicopters happened upon a sailboat that lost its keel and turned turtle and sank in the blink of an eye, depositing the couple and their shepherd mix in the drink in the Molokai Channel. The crew winched up the couple and the dog (duly in his lifejacket). Upon arrival at our base, the dog thanked everyone he saw in a flight suit... which of course was pretty nearly everybody.
A small cargo ship had a fire aboard and the crew abandoned ship some distance offshore... all but the dog. The fire ultimately self-extinguished. Currents being what they are, it took some days to get anyone to the ship to salvage it, which was drifting about in the Central Pacific. The dog was located aboard, none the worse for wear and was brought back to Honolulu and reunited with the ship's Chinese captain. This human interest story made the papers and TV news, and the captain was asked the dog's name. The cynical among us believed it had been changed from: "Dinner".
One fine day I had duty, but wasn't flying. One of the other helicopters happened upon a sailboat that lost its keel and turned turtle and sank in the blink of an eye, depositing the couple and their shepherd mix in the drink in the Molokai Channel. The crew winched up the couple and the dog (duly in his lifejacket). Upon arrival at our base, the dog thanked everyone he saw in a flight suit... which of course was pretty nearly everybody.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 103
Likes: 1
From: Australia sometimes
I guess the main thrust of my question is the "Legality" of said rescue, not so much if or how it can be done (been there a few times myself).
We have reg's on "carriage of animals" that prescribe how one must conduct the transport of pets etc, however, I'm more concerned with what the Judge would say if it all went sour following a well intentioned rescue. "Tell me Mr Pilot, what regulation (or dispensation) allowed you to winch a dog (cat / whatever?) aboard your helicopter and transport it to safety?
We have reg's on "carriage of animals" that prescribe how one must conduct the transport of pets etc, however, I'm more concerned with what the Judge would say if it all went sour following a well intentioned rescue. "Tell me Mr Pilot, what regulation (or dispensation) allowed you to winch a dog (cat / whatever?) aboard your helicopter and transport it to safety?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 103
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From: Not quite where I'd like to be
Did a job in the South Atlantic a few years back where we had to lift 38 Chilean fishermen from liferafts after they had abandoned their burning long-liner. As first cab on scene, we cleared the first 2 dinghies of 22 pax, then the winchman brought up 2 dogs, one at a time, in physical-grip lifts. When I asked him later why he decided to rescue the dogs, he pointed out that the fishermen a) asked him to, and b) were all carrying their extremely sharp filleting knives.......
In terms of the legality of it, the captain was quite happy so long as we were, which was good enough for us. We routinely carry dogs on SAR helicopters anyway, albeit trained SARDA dogs. When we got back to Stanley, the locals took one look at the dogs and stated that they needed to be euthanised as it was illegal to import them. VERY strong protests from the SAR crew, and a promise to keep them safely in the airport terminal until repatriation, sorted that one out.
In terms of the legality of it, the captain was quite happy so long as we were, which was good enough for us. We routinely carry dogs on SAR helicopters anyway, albeit trained SARDA dogs. When we got back to Stanley, the locals took one look at the dogs and stated that they needed to be euthanised as it was illegal to import them. VERY strong protests from the SAR crew, and a promise to keep them safely in the airport terminal until repatriation, sorted that one out.
