A nice piece of flying; & excellent PR
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Moose Loadie,
I dont know if I was watching the same video, but I didnt see any envelope-pushing or unnecessary risk-taking. Sure they werent operating Cat "A", but I guess there werent any fare-paying pasengers on board! A sensible risk-assessment (which is what it comes down to in police/HEMS/SAR -type operations) will tell you that the chance of an engine failure in the few crucial seconds in that position are minute. The chances of the patient croaking if you dont do it may be large. The crew makes the call based on the info they have, and their experience & judgement. You cant possibly know from watching that clip what factors may have been involved in that decision.
I dont know if I was watching the same video, but I didnt see any envelope-pushing or unnecessary risk-taking. Sure they werent operating Cat "A", but I guess there werent any fare-paying pasengers on board! A sensible risk-assessment (which is what it comes down to in police/HEMS/SAR -type operations) will tell you that the chance of an engine failure in the few crucial seconds in that position are minute. The chances of the patient croaking if you dont do it may be large. The crew makes the call based on the info they have, and their experience & judgement. You cant possibly know from watching that clip what factors may have been involved in that decision.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: N England
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes every day will be different.Heres another one.Same crew different pilot.
Air Ambulance lands in Berwick town centre - Northumberland communities - Berwick
Air Ambulance lands in Berwick town centre - Northumberland communities - Berwick
Air Ambulance lands in Berwick town centre
Posted by The Journal on Sep 9, 09 09:14 AM in News
Berwick town centre was brought to a dramatic standstill after an elderly man was found on the pavement.
Shoppers watched as a Great North Air Ambulance set down on Marygate in Berwick after a 91-year-old man suffered chest and leg injuries.
With little margin for error and a large amount of skill, pilot Ross Wadham guided the helicopter down.
Last night, it remained unclear whether the pensioner was knocked down, tripped or fell.
The helicopter flew him to Wansbeck Hospital for treatment, at around 2.15pm yesterday.
Police cleared roads before the helicopter landed between buildings and an ambulance. Lamp posts, sign posts and street signs added to the hazards.
The aircraft is more often seen touching down on playing fields, parkland or open ground.
Hairdresser Gemma Robinson was working at the Brewer's Arms pub opposite the spot where the incident took place.
The 20 year old said: "A man was on the pavement in the street.
"I heard the ambulance and our boss told us no one was allowed to leave the pub. The street was cordoned off as the helicopter came down.
"It was pretty dramatic to watch. I'm not sure I have seen a helicopter land in the centre of town before. We haven't heard anything else, but I hope that the guy is alright."
Northumberland County councillor Isabel Hunter said she had never known an air ambulance to land in the centre of Berwick before.
"It was a fantastic feat by the air ambulance to actually land in Marygate and I have every admiration for the crew," she said.
"It is amazing where they have to land sometimes, as they need to get as close to the person they are helping as possible. My heart goes out to the Great North Air Ambulance everyday, to the amazing work they do when people are in need."
A Great North Air Ambulance spokesman said: "We were called at around 2.15pm yesterday to Berwick to help a 91 year old man who had fallen or been knocked over.
"Although it is unusual to land in a town centre, our pilots are all highly trained and it has to be the most appropriate decision for the patient."
Posted by The Journal on Sep 9, 09 09:14 AM in News
Berwick town centre was brought to a dramatic standstill after an elderly man was found on the pavement.
Shoppers watched as a Great North Air Ambulance set down on Marygate in Berwick after a 91-year-old man suffered chest and leg injuries.
With little margin for error and a large amount of skill, pilot Ross Wadham guided the helicopter down.
Last night, it remained unclear whether the pensioner was knocked down, tripped or fell.
The helicopter flew him to Wansbeck Hospital for treatment, at around 2.15pm yesterday.
Police cleared roads before the helicopter landed between buildings and an ambulance. Lamp posts, sign posts and street signs added to the hazards.
The aircraft is more often seen touching down on playing fields, parkland or open ground.
Hairdresser Gemma Robinson was working at the Brewer's Arms pub opposite the spot where the incident took place.
The 20 year old said: "A man was on the pavement in the street.
"I heard the ambulance and our boss told us no one was allowed to leave the pub. The street was cordoned off as the helicopter came down.
"It was pretty dramatic to watch. I'm not sure I have seen a helicopter land in the centre of town before. We haven't heard anything else, but I hope that the guy is alright."
Northumberland County councillor Isabel Hunter said she had never known an air ambulance to land in the centre of Berwick before.
"It was a fantastic feat by the air ambulance to actually land in Marygate and I have every admiration for the crew," she said.
"It is amazing where they have to land sometimes, as they need to get as close to the person they are helping as possible. My heart goes out to the Great North Air Ambulance everyday, to the amazing work they do when people are in need."
A Great North Air Ambulance spokesman said: "We were called at around 2.15pm yesterday to Berwick to help a 91 year old man who had fallen or been knocked over.
"Although it is unusual to land in a town centre, our pilots are all highly trained and it has to be the most appropriate decision for the patient."
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 13th Oct 2009 at 20:24. Reason: Add photo and article
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forgive my ignorance, but where did they get airlifted from? Presumably a different spot (ie not on the ledge). And why didn't the pilot just land there in the first place?
Injured party had fallen approx 30ft from the top of the ridge - its worth noting that both sides are a near vertical 300ft drop to te bottom. In other words that was the only place to land
Geardownflaps - technically military SAR's primary role is to rescue downed aircrew but the fact is that 95% of our jobs are rescuing civilians. These rescues are not done as favours - they are our job since the Govt exercises its responsibility to provide SAR in the UK SAR region by using the RAF at 6 flights, the RN at 2 flights and the MCA at 4 flights - all doing the same job.
Not quite sure why a SAR helicopter wasn't called to this one - they can't all have been U/S! As it seems to have turned out, all the brave flying and additional risk was to get a casualty who was only walking wounded - had she needed to be stretcher lifted then winching would have been the safest option rather than trying to carry her 30 feet up a very steep slope and load her into a helicopter balanced on only the rear wheels.
Unfortunately, different ambulance authorities have different ideas about SAR helicopters and when to use them - often to the detriment of the casualty who is left on a cold mountainside whilst a land ambulance crew discovers they can't get on scene, calls an air ambulance who then discovers they can't get the paramedic in or the casualty out and then a SAR aircraft is tasked instead of at the beginning of the process.
In this case it all worked but there would have been significant delay had a stretcher extraction been required.
It's not about willy-waving it's about casualty care.
Not quite sure why a SAR helicopter wasn't called to this one - they can't all have been U/S! As it seems to have turned out, all the brave flying and additional risk was to get a casualty who was only walking wounded - had she needed to be stretcher lifted then winching would have been the safest option rather than trying to carry her 30 feet up a very steep slope and load her into a helicopter balanced on only the rear wheels.
Unfortunately, different ambulance authorities have different ideas about SAR helicopters and when to use them - often to the detriment of the casualty who is left on a cold mountainside whilst a land ambulance crew discovers they can't get on scene, calls an air ambulance who then discovers they can't get the paramedic in or the casualty out and then a SAR aircraft is tasked instead of at the beginning of the process.
In this case it all worked but there would have been significant delay had a stretcher extraction been required.
It's not about willy-waving it's about casualty care.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Non pc plod, thanks for giving me an insight into how a HEMS/SAR Crew work. Good information that I should have known when pulling casualties from that very location. As several others have said time and time again in many threads it's about patient care!! I've been sat in the ops room many times listening to agencies trying to complete a job that quite clearly needs a winch equiped aircraft only to be called some time later when realize that they cannot actually extract the casualty. Let's remember it's the golden HOUR!!
As for envelope pushing. I wonder when Steve last practiced ridge approaches and landings? Qualified rear crew there to talk him down? Able to put down smoke for wind finding?
We know it worked out this time but I just hope next time we don't get the excuse "but we've done it before" and it ends up biting them.
As for envelope pushing. I wonder when Steve last practiced ridge approaches and landings? Qualified rear crew there to talk him down? Able to put down smoke for wind finding?
We know it worked out this time but I just hope next time we don't get the excuse "but we've done it before" and it ends up biting them.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,586
Received 443 Likes
on
235 Posts
Don't criticise the piano player (pilot) too much in your political shenanigans. 
It wasn't his fault that he was the best asset on scene!
Btw, of course our loadie contributor will know that putting down smoke isn't the only way for an experienced pilot to find the wind.
Any pilot on scene at the time will use all his skills to get the job done. In the circumstances I would probably have done exactly the same.
It wasn't his fault that he was the best asset on scene!
Btw, of course our loadie contributor will know that putting down smoke isn't the only way for an experienced pilot to find the wind.
Any pilot on scene at the time will use all his skills to get the job done. In the circumstances I would probably have done exactly the same.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: earth
Age: 25
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree with ShyTorque on both his posts.
One metre further back, and all wheels would have been on. Always found mirrors invaluable for these situations, but they are sadly lacking on most UK machines (except Scotland)
Canadian pilots do this sort of thing every day in the Rocks, unassisted, single engine, public transport and I've never heard of them chucking smoke grenades out the window to find the wind.
Same in other foreign mountainous regions around the world I'm sure. (Alps, NZ etc.)
Of course, these things should always be made as safe as possible, but I can't see that it is any safer dangling from the end of a winch line, from an ancient Sea King, with dubious single engine capability, than landing on in a 365.
Good bit of flying none the less, as safe as any other alternatives, and good use of the HEMS system in my opinion, otherwise, what's the point?
Inter-hospital transfers only?
One metre further back, and all wheels would have been on. Always found mirrors invaluable for these situations, but they are sadly lacking on most UK machines (except Scotland)
Canadian pilots do this sort of thing every day in the Rocks, unassisted, single engine, public transport and I've never heard of them chucking smoke grenades out the window to find the wind.
Same in other foreign mountainous regions around the world I'm sure. (Alps, NZ etc.)
Of course, these things should always be made as safe as possible, but I can't see that it is any safer dangling from the end of a winch line, from an ancient Sea King, with dubious single engine capability, than landing on in a 365.
Good bit of flying none the less, as safe as any other alternatives, and good use of the HEMS system in my opinion, otherwise, what's the point?
Inter-hospital transfers only?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Not here
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That would have to be the most outstanding piece of flying I have ever seen 
to think a helicopter hovering with only part of its wheels or skids touching the ground...hats off to you 
to think a helicopter hovering with only part of its wheels or skids touching the ground...hats off to you
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Where I'm pointing...
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like this?
(no intention to take away from the excellent job by the HEMS pilots to which this thread is attributed)
The even managed to shut down the engines and stop the rotor blades
(no intention to take away from the excellent job by the HEMS pilots to which this thread is attributed)
The even managed to shut down the engines and stop the rotor blades
Scissorlink - I can only assume you are being ironic
It was (as I expect Mr Graham would admit) not exactly the most challenging piece of flying in the world - he just did what was required to get the job done.
Craphat - dangling from a piece of wire underneath an ageing Sea King would at least have given everyone a chance in the event of an engine failure or worse since the aircraft would have had several hundred feet of fresh air to dive into - unlike the 365.
Coming back to casualty care (the important bit here), One would have to assume that a 30' fall would result in some major injuries (didn't in this case luckily) which would probably require a stretcher lift - time to call a SAR aircraft!
It was (as I expect Mr Graham would admit) not exactly the most challenging piece of flying in the world - he just did what was required to get the job done.
Craphat - dangling from a piece of wire underneath an ageing Sea King would at least have given everyone a chance in the event of an engine failure or worse since the aircraft would have had several hundred feet of fresh air to dive into - unlike the 365.
Coming back to casualty care (the important bit here), One would have to assume that a 30' fall would result in some major injuries (didn't in this case luckily) which would probably require a stretcher lift - time to call a SAR aircraft!
Don't wish to get bogged down in the old SAR versus Air ambulance rumble, but if the UK CAA wasn't run in such a draconian manner, there would be leeway for air rats to carry a winch for over land jobs only such as this one. With much respect to the forces, it's not rocket science given the correct training.
I guess in the UK size would be the main issue given the average charity budget.
Nice job anyway. By the way, I have done many a cliff rescue on the Cornish cliffs, putting a skid on a tight ledge to allow the paramedics to jump out and render first response aid. Then up to the top of the cliff to shut down and call 771 in. Fast response accomplished, everyone happy!! Does SAR take patient to hospital or us? WHO CARES...
I guess in the UK size would be the main issue given the average charity budget.
Nice job anyway. By the way, I have done many a cliff rescue on the Cornish cliffs, putting a skid on a tight ledge to allow the paramedics to jump out and render first response aid. Then up to the top of the cliff to shut down and call 771 in. Fast response accomplished, everyone happy!! Does SAR take patient to hospital or us? WHO CARES...
Btw, of course our loadie contributor will know that putting down smoke isn't the only way for an experienced pilot to find the wind.
Presumably GNAA had to land on the roundabout in Berwick due to no land ambulance available?
Otherwise the patient could have been packaged up and driven 600m round the corner to the golf course for pick up.
Otherwise the patient could have been packaged up and driven 600m round the corner to the golf course for pick up.
Last edited by Bertie Thruster; 14th Oct 2009 at 21:04.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,586
Received 443 Likes
on
235 Posts
MG, What a strange idea - for me that piece of string on the Gazelle never deviated from straight up the windscreen. 
I was thinking more of a clover leaf, or similar flight path to find the wind.
I was thinking more of a clover leaf, or similar flight path to find the wind.
With the string, if you make an approach keeping the nose pointing at the landing site, ie not flying in balance, the string will indicate where the wind is coming from. Adjusting your approach path so that the nose is pointing at the landing site with the string straight will put you into wind.
It was equally useful when coming to a high hover in our old Squirrel. I always thought that the lack of string on the 135 was a poor decision.
It was equally useful when coming to a high hover in our old Squirrel. I always thought that the lack of string on the 135 was a poor decision.