Suggestions please - Dodgy first start on my JetBox
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Another thing to check is the buss bar between the battery relay and the ground power relay in the nose by the battery.
This buss bar, along with the large wire going back to the start relay behind the hat rack, are made of aluminum. The buss bar is subject to corrosion, which will create some resistance between the battery relay, and the ground power relay. The wire going to the back of the ship attaches to the ground power relay.
Remove the wire and buss bar, clean or replace the buss bar, make sure the terminal and wire are in good condition, and see if that helps. Also, there is a junction block above the pilot’s head that the big wire goes to before branching off to the back. Had one of those get loose somehow once, and we had an intermittent battery charge problem. Took a while to figure out that one. May want to check that too.
This buss bar, along with the large wire going back to the start relay behind the hat rack, are made of aluminum. The buss bar is subject to corrosion, which will create some resistance between the battery relay, and the ground power relay. The wire going to the back of the ship attaches to the ground power relay.
Remove the wire and buss bar, clean or replace the buss bar, make sure the terminal and wire are in good condition, and see if that helps. Also, there is a junction block above the pilot’s head that the big wire goes to before branching off to the back. Had one of those get loose somehow once, and we had an intermittent battery charge problem. Took a while to figure out that one. May want to check that too.
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JT
As Rotormatic and others have hinted on;
May I make the suggestion that you go all the way from the (power in) source, either way negative or positive, to the (power drain) source on both wires. Especially your earthing wires.
Truly, I have no idea just how many starter motors, and baterries, regardless of the type of machinery that were changed simply beacause the earth wire was not up to it.
I have Absolutely no idea how many helicopter gauges have been changed in my proximity, and many at cost to myself, simply because the same damm earthing circuit was not up to it.
Right now I have a problem with the engine instruments on two of our R22's in that regard. Every experienced driver will have a similar story to relate.
Many times I have seen that a starter motor will actuate because of the sudden high impulse it will crack an otherwise tenuous connection. I.E. one that will not allow a small current such as a battey recharge across the same connection. Result? flat battery.
I reckon that if you have fluctuating, RPM from either, of your ships or external power source, then you have a power transfer problem.
Voltage may well be really good in the unloaded state but current, as water, will only flow when you have a proper tap opening. That is proper cable cross section, and proper connection integrity, every connection and every cable, of which in your situation there are several.
cheers tet
As Rotormatic and others have hinted on;
May I make the suggestion that you go all the way from the (power in) source, either way negative or positive, to the (power drain) source on both wires. Especially your earthing wires.
Truly, I have no idea just how many starter motors, and baterries, regardless of the type of machinery that were changed simply beacause the earth wire was not up to it.
I have Absolutely no idea how many helicopter gauges have been changed in my proximity, and many at cost to myself, simply because the same damm earthing circuit was not up to it.
Right now I have a problem with the engine instruments on two of our R22's in that regard. Every experienced driver will have a similar story to relate.
Many times I have seen that a starter motor will actuate because of the sudden high impulse it will crack an otherwise tenuous connection. I.E. one that will not allow a small current such as a battey recharge across the same connection. Result? flat battery.
I reckon that if you have fluctuating, RPM from either, of your ships or external power source, then you have a power transfer problem.
Voltage may well be really good in the unloaded state but current, as water, will only flow when you have a proper tap opening. That is proper cable cross section, and proper connection integrity, every connection and every cable, of which in your situation there are several.
cheers tet
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Thanks all,
The update now, is that I can't get it started at all today. I've tried on the battery, on external power and using both together, but I can't get sufficient N1 to fire the engine. On two attempts I have had to abort in order to avoid a hot start.
I've now asked my maintenance organisation to read through this thread and we're going to explore the ideas tomorrow. I will keep you all posted and really appreciate the suggestions.
Joel
The update now, is that I can't get it started at all today. I've tried on the battery, on external power and using both together, but I can't get sufficient N1 to fire the engine. On two attempts I have had to abort in order to avoid a hot start.
I've now asked my maintenance organisation to read through this thread and we're going to explore the ideas tomorrow. I will keep you all posted and really appreciate the suggestions.
Joel
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I have seen wires switched on Jetbox sarter/generators. Makes for a LONG and SLOW start, all else is normal. Have your engineers confirm that the wires are on the starter/generator terminals the correct way.
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Hi All,
The update is (actually not much) that my maintenance team are coming tomorrow to look at all the connections, relays etc and they are bringing with them a replacement starter/generator as well.
We've printed off this thread and we'll be considering all the suggestions in turn. We think it will probably end up being the S/G, but let's see.
I'll put an update on here as soon as we get to the bottom of the problem.
Once again, thanks for all your responses.
Joel
The update is (actually not much) that my maintenance team are coming tomorrow to look at all the connections, relays etc and they are bringing with them a replacement starter/generator as well.
We've printed off this thread and we'll be considering all the suggestions in turn. We think it will probably end up being the S/G, but let's see.
I'll put an update on here as soon as we get to the bottom of the problem.
Once again, thanks for all your responses.
Joel
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Cheers Pitot,
I've started to sell a few things on e-bay to cover the cost. My wife isn't too happy as she says she will miss the items and is going to require them.
I've explained that she has duplicates of most of the items and really doesn't need both eyes, two arms or more than one kidney.
Women!
Joel
Only kidding, - I'm not selling her Kidneys!
I've started to sell a few things on e-bay to cover the cost. My wife isn't too happy as she says she will miss the items and is going to require them.
I've explained that she has duplicates of most of the items and really doesn't need both eyes, two arms or more than one kidney.
Women!
Joel
Only kidding, - I'm not selling her Kidneys!
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UPDATE
Right team, so far so good. My JetBox is in the air again after having it's starter generator replaced. Once it was done and I pressed the starter it motored through 12% (a previous sticking point) up to 14%/15%.
A subsequent start on my APU was just as good and it seems a happy bunny now. We'll have to see how the next few starts are, particularly, the first one's of the day.
Thanks very much for all your help.
Joel
Right team, so far so good. My JetBox is in the air again after having it's starter generator replaced. Once it was done and I pressed the starter it motored through 12% (a previous sticking point) up to 14%/15%.
A subsequent start on my APU was just as good and it seems a happy bunny now. We'll have to see how the next few starts are, particularly, the first one's of the day.
Thanks very much for all your help.
Joel
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of course I'm glad that your JR is flying again,
Joel, BUT
I was just about to recommend that you changed the B206III for a R44R1 and a set of jump leads........ so your update ruined my post.
However, it does give me an opportunity to recount an old story when my Jetranger (yes, I have had the pleasure) wouldn't start coz I had left the battery on all day when I was parked up in the London Docklands (a private site, now a housing estate).
We spotted an AA patrol man who had just fixed woman's car that had conked out.
I ran down the embankment and asked him if he had both a battery and his clever power pack -- he did.
He sorted the battery and power pack so it chucked out 24v, put some jump leads on the 206 battery and we click click click boofed. Away we went.
he got a tenner tip, didn't bother with the paperwork, and had a great tale to tell.
Those were the days.......
Big Ls.
I was just about to recommend that you changed the B206III for a R44R1 and a set of jump leads........ so your update ruined my post.
However, it does give me an opportunity to recount an old story when my Jetranger (yes, I have had the pleasure) wouldn't start coz I had left the battery on all day when I was parked up in the London Docklands (a private site, now a housing estate).
We spotted an AA patrol man who had just fixed woman's car that had conked out.
I ran down the embankment and asked him if he had both a battery and his clever power pack -- he did.
He sorted the battery and power pack so it chucked out 24v, put some jump leads on the 206 battery and we click click click boofed. Away we went.
he got a tenner tip, didn't bother with the paperwork, and had a great tale to tell.
Those were the days.......
Big Ls.
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heh Biggles99, I was in Botswana, Francistown airport with a dodgy battery in a 407, scratching my head where I was going to get a boost.
A chat with the nice commander of the BDF (Botswana Defence Force) and the loan of a battery from an Islander and some jump cables, a piece of wood to separate the crocodile clips and Bob's your uncle.
I think they had a good story to tell as well
Perhaps this could be a start of a new thread... "Strange jumper cable stories and those who helped you out"
Joel, glad to hear it worked out for you.
A chat with the nice commander of the BDF (Botswana Defence Force) and the loan of a battery from an Islander and some jump cables, a piece of wood to separate the crocodile clips and Bob's your uncle.
I think they had a good story to tell as well
Perhaps this could be a start of a new thread... "Strange jumper cable stories and those who helped you out"
Joel, glad to hear it worked out for you.
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Banjo and I had to fix our Jetranger's cowling with some cellotape once at a very posh hotel. Just to add to the stories.
Glad to hear you are back in the air, i hope you get a refund on the old SG.
Glad to hear you are back in the air, i hope you get a refund on the old SG.
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I had a JetBox that had a dodgy starter/generator, sometimes when you pressed the button nothing would happen. The s/g needed a tap with a piece of wood to get it to go. Not funny when you’re at Battersea with a cabin full of passengers and I had to jump out open up the cowling and give it a whack! Passengers never said a word to me all the way to Heathrow!! Funny thing is I used to have Mini that need the same treatment!!!
I can see a new thread starting here...
I can see a new thread starting here...
