Legal Beavers One For You ??
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Legal Beavers One For You ??
This is one for the much more legally minded members of this site:
If an operator had failed to meet the payroll for 10 weeks how long will it be before the powers that be in this case EASA pull there operators License
Mav
If an operator had failed to meet the payroll for 10 weeks how long will it be before the powers that be in this case EASA pull there operators License
Mav
Is it "just" you, or all the staff?
I'd say as long as the company can prove financial viability (money in account) they will keep their AOC.
Not paying an employee is more of a labour rights situation, isn't it.
But if they are really short of cash, they will be grounded by the fuel guys...
Been there...
I'd say as long as the company can prove financial viability (money in account) they will keep their AOC.
Not paying an employee is more of a labour rights situation, isn't it.
But if they are really short of cash, they will be grounded by the fuel guys...
Been there...
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how long will it be before the powers that be in this case EASA pull there operators License 
If a company can't pay its employees, it won't be paying its creditors either and some, or all of them, will comment legal action for payment which will likely result in the company being put into Administration.
Alternatively, there is nothing to stop the employees doing this and they may be better off since under Insolvency Act, employees have a right to be paid over and above trade creditors. But this is not something to commence without very careful consideration as it may result in the clsong of the business.
Cheers
Whirls
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working for free
Mav, and others,
this is an interesting point.
Not from the technical "at what point do the CAA/EASA wade in",
but from the perspective of all you instuctors, engineers and commercial pilots who persist in working at a place where you don't get paid and where the cheques bounce.
So what is it that makes you continue to work for nothing?
Why do you turn up for work, knowing you probably are not going to get paid?
My background is transport and distribution, and the one liability that always, always got paid on time were the self employed drivers invoices and the PAYE wages for the employed drivers.
When times were hard (I've been there, believe me) you'd duck and dive with the bank, the rent, the rates, the bigger suppliers, and the taxman, but you always, always pay your drivers on time.
And you guys are "drivers in the sky".
One of my key drivers once said to me "I'll turn up every day at 05:00, but the first time my cheque bounces, you'll never see me again". He was with us for over 10 years, and we never bounced a cheque.
So what is the difference in this industry?
Why do people turn up to get shafted again and again?
I don't understand it.
Big Ls.
this is an interesting point.
Not from the technical "at what point do the CAA/EASA wade in",
but from the perspective of all you instuctors, engineers and commercial pilots who persist in working at a place where you don't get paid and where the cheques bounce.
So what is it that makes you continue to work for nothing?
Why do you turn up for work, knowing you probably are not going to get paid?
My background is transport and distribution, and the one liability that always, always got paid on time were the self employed drivers invoices and the PAYE wages for the employed drivers.
When times were hard (I've been there, believe me) you'd duck and dive with the bank, the rent, the rates, the bigger suppliers, and the taxman, but you always, always pay your drivers on time.
And you guys are "drivers in the sky".
One of my key drivers once said to me "I'll turn up every day at 05:00, but the first time my cheque bounces, you'll never see me again". He was with us for over 10 years, and we never bounced a cheque.
So what is the difference in this industry?
Why do people turn up to get shafted again and again?
I don't understand it.
Big Ls.
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Can pilots put liens on aircraft like mechanics can on cars, plumbers on homes, etc.?
Last edited by birrddog; 16th Sep 2009 at 23:18. Reason: Spelling police
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Well, pilots can lean on aircraft but no, they can't put a lien on them in the UK. Neither can mechanics on cars ot plumbers on houses legally in the UK unless there exists already such a clause in a contract.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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^^^^^^^ Sorry, but I think thaayt's wrong.
Once a "vehicle" has been left for work to be executed,the repairer has a Lien over it.....on effect he becomes the ownerand keeper.
in practical terms, the repairer is charged with the responsibility of taking good care of the vehicle and is the temporary owner until the bill is paid.-or until a judgement is obtained in the Court.
The lien is broken if the vehicle is released to anybody...pursuit is then through the County Court.
Once a "vehicle" has been left for work to be executed,the repairer has a Lien over it.....on effect he becomes the ownerand keeper.
in practical terms, the repairer is charged with the responsibility of taking good care of the vehicle and is the temporary owner until the bill is paid.-or until a judgement is obtained in the Court.
The lien is broken if the vehicle is released to anybody...pursuit is then through the County Court.
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GoodGrief : No "ALL" the guys at the sharp end are without pay, I personally saw the writting on the wall and departed a wise move on my behalf.
Unfortunately Fuel is supplied on the present contract.
RVDT: Sorry actual issuing authority in this case is the LBA.
Biggles99 : Most of the guys they employed are low time fresh out of the military or school given a captaincy on what is a medium to heavy machine with only 20 hrs on type, They would find it difficult finding a place elsewhere.
MAV
Unfortunately Fuel is supplied on the present contract.
RVDT: Sorry actual issuing authority in this case is the LBA.
Biggles99 : Most of the guys they employed are low time fresh out of the military or school given a captaincy on what is a medium to heavy machine with only 20 hrs on type, They would find it difficult finding a place elsewhere.
MAV
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Non payment of wages (or un-agreed deductions) is dealt with by Employment Tribunals in the UK, and a complaint must be raised within three months of the date of the event.
Employment Tribunal > Forms & Guidance – Making a claim
Employment Tribunal > Forms & Guidance – Making a claim
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TorqueStripe / Airbourne_artist
As with a lot of operators including I might add some of the larger well known operators this particular operator makes salary payment through a third party,
Hence when the S
T hits the fan and you try to take them to task you find that no matter who you though you worked for all those years quite often it transpires they take one big step back and point out you were actually only contracted to them and your actual employer was a company registered in say Sierra Leone !!!! Who's list of company officials often bears a striking resemblance to the same names of people employed in the head office of the company in say Austria you thought you worked for.
But of course you have no recourse to take that company to task as with offices in such diverse places they are safe and secure in the knowledge that with that countries non existent employment laws they are well protected from prosecution.
As with a lot of operators including I might add some of the larger well known operators this particular operator makes salary payment through a third party,
Hence when the S
T hits the fan and you try to take them to task you find that no matter who you though you worked for all those years quite often it transpires they take one big step back and point out you were actually only contracted to them and your actual employer was a company registered in say Sierra Leone !!!! Who's list of company officials often bears a striking resemblance to the same names of people employed in the head office of the company in say Austria you thought you worked for.But of course you have no recourse to take that company to task as with offices in such diverse places they are safe and secure in the knowledge that with that countries non existent employment laws they are well protected from prosecution.
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why you still stay without pay
So is that the answer to my question, Mav?
It's a simple case that at least early houred pilots are building their hours on an aircraft that otherwise they would not get their hands on?
I suppose that is some consolation, but I've read thread after thread on this forum from outraged CPL(H)ers about people flying for nothing.
This is exactly the same, isn't it?
As they used to say in New York, "it's time for a paradigm shift in attitudes in this industry."
whatever that means.....
Big Ls
It's a simple case that at least early houred pilots are building their hours on an aircraft that otherwise they would not get their hands on?
I suppose that is some consolation, but I've read thread after thread on this forum from outraged CPL(H)ers about people flying for nothing.
This is exactly the same, isn't it?
As they used to say in New York, "it's time for a paradigm shift in attitudes in this industry."
whatever that means.....
Big Ls
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As with a lot of operators including I might add some of the larger well known operators this particular operator makes salary payment through a third party...
quite often it transpires they take one big step back and point out you were actually only contracted to them and your actual employer was a company registered in say Sierra Leone
quite often it transpires they take one big step back and point out you were actually only contracted to them and your actual employer was a company registered in say Sierra Leone
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Alternatively, there is nothing to stop the employees doing this and they may be better off since under Insolvency Act, employees have a right to be paid over and above trade creditors. But this is not something to commence without very careful consideration as it may result in the clsong of the business.
