What is this guy doing?
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
From: South East Asia
spinwing: Age, well not quite ready for the scrap heap just yet. Alan Styles, the name is vaguely familiar, was he a Belvedere driver?
SASless: Jack Trigg is another vagurly familiar name, I seem to recollect that he was a Master Pilot (the RAF's flying equivelent of a Warrant Officer), am I correct?
I first experienced the Belvedere when I was posted to RAF Khormaksar in mid-1965 where the helicopter assets were the Belvedere's of 26 Sqdn, Wessex HC2's of 72 Sqdn and Wirlwind 10's for SAR, I can't remember the Wirlwind unit I'm afraid. In late 1965 26 Sqdn was dispanded and the Belvedere's were assigned to 66 Sqdn at RAF Seletar in Singapore. The aircraft were shipped out on either HMS Albion or HMS Bulwark, I don't recall which and some of the ground-crews accompanied the aircraft while the remainder, including myself, flew from Khormaksar to Manama (Bahrain) by Hastings then on to RAF Changi by Comet. Rather curiously, I don't remember any of the aircrew being transfered with the helicopters, only ground-crew.
Upon arrival at Seletar, the first task with the Belvedere's was to repaint them in a camouflage pattern as they were still in the old 'silver and white' paint scheme. This was a high priority as 66 Sqdn was actively engaged in in operations against Indonesian forces in Malaya and Borneo, this of course was the period noe known as 'Confrontation'. For the Borneo operations the squadron had a permanant detachment at Labaun. Oh happy days!
SASless: Jack Trigg is another vagurly familiar name, I seem to recollect that he was a Master Pilot (the RAF's flying equivelent of a Warrant Officer), am I correct?
I first experienced the Belvedere when I was posted to RAF Khormaksar in mid-1965 where the helicopter assets were the Belvedere's of 26 Sqdn, Wessex HC2's of 72 Sqdn and Wirlwind 10's for SAR, I can't remember the Wirlwind unit I'm afraid. In late 1965 26 Sqdn was dispanded and the Belvedere's were assigned to 66 Sqdn at RAF Seletar in Singapore. The aircraft were shipped out on either HMS Albion or HMS Bulwark, I don't recall which and some of the ground-crews accompanied the aircraft while the remainder, including myself, flew from Khormaksar to Manama (Bahrain) by Hastings then on to RAF Changi by Comet. Rather curiously, I don't remember any of the aircrew being transfered with the helicopters, only ground-crew.
Upon arrival at Seletar, the first task with the Belvedere's was to repaint them in a camouflage pattern as they were still in the old 'silver and white' paint scheme. This was a high priority as 66 Sqdn was actively engaged in in operations against Indonesian forces in Malaya and Borneo, this of course was the period noe known as 'Confrontation'. For the Borneo operations the squadron had a permanant detachment at Labaun. Oh happy days!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Labuan
The Whirlwind's at Labuan were 230Sqdn.
I was posted to Labuan in February 1965. As an air electronics technicion you can imagine there was not much work on the choppers for me. I therefore took up the offer of a crewman on the choppers, the best decision I ever made, a fantastic year flying around.
From there I went to Changi for 18 months before returning to the UK.
Ken Gibson
I was posted to Labuan in February 1965. As an air electronics technicion you can imagine there was not much work on the choppers for me. I therefore took up the offer of a crewman on the choppers, the best decision I ever made, a fantastic year flying around.
From there I went to Changi for 18 months before returning to the UK.
Ken Gibson
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 372
Likes: 1
From: Devon
The Whirlwinds of 230 Sqdn were IIRC the Whirlwinds from the UN in Cyprus. A detachment of 22 Sqdn looked after them for the last month before flying them on to HMS Triumph where they were to be modified on the trip to Labuan by 230 Sqdn The Whirlwinds were replaced by Wessex by which we were flown off the Triumph back to Nicosia.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 1
From: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Mmmm...
Saint Jack ...
Yes Alan (Styles) was a Belvedere driver (he also did my Puma conversion soooo loong ago) ... he used to tell me of the fun and games trying to rig those things to fly sweet .... something to do with cables and airframe twisting???? I seem to recall!
Age .... Ha .... if you look down the cue .... you'll see me standing not that far away from you!
Cheers
Saint Jack ...
Yes Alan (Styles) was a Belvedere driver (he also did my Puma conversion soooo loong ago) ... he used to tell me of the fun and games trying to rig those things to fly sweet .... something to do with cables and airframe twisting???? I seem to recall!
Age .... Ha .... if you look down the cue .... you'll see me standing not that far away from you!
Cheers
Just in case
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
From: South East Asia
spinwing:
Yes, the Belvedere was all fun and games doing main rotor track and balance, particularly if you had mis-matched blades, and it could take lierally days to get it right. By the way, this was done by using an early electronic system using magnetic pick-ups, a far cry from the standard procedure (at the time) of using a tracking flag for the Wessx and Wirlwind.
The flight control system itself did not help, basically this was push-pull tubes (cables were only used for yaw control and I believe they were only connect to the forward rotor so that when the helicopter yawed it pivoted about the rear rotor - I think). The hydraulic servo actuators were located under the cockpit floor. This resulted in very positive inputs from the cockpit controls to the servos but from the servos to the respective rotor heads the control motion, particularly to the rear rotor some 30 feet away could be a little 'spongey', particularly in the 'push' sense. A later modifcation installed nylon fairleads along the entire length of the flight controls to the rear rotor to prevent/minimise 'bowing' of the rods under these 'push' conditions.
I don't recall too much about airframe twisting but I do remember that structural cracking was virtually absent. And don't even get me started about the notorious engine starting system.
For those of you who know, or may know, people from this period I now recall the name Flt. Lt. John Dicken (corect spelling?) whom I later heard went to a VIP helicopter operation in the London area. I remember him as a big jovial guy who, when no one was looking, was quite happy to call me by my nick name, I was an SAC (Senior Aircraftsman) at the time. For the non-British, this is one rank below Corporal - but they were keeping an eye on me!
Finally, can someone please explain how I remember all of this when I occasionally leave home having forgotten to zip-up my fly?
Yes, the Belvedere was all fun and games doing main rotor track and balance, particularly if you had mis-matched blades, and it could take lierally days to get it right. By the way, this was done by using an early electronic system using magnetic pick-ups, a far cry from the standard procedure (at the time) of using a tracking flag for the Wessx and Wirlwind.
The flight control system itself did not help, basically this was push-pull tubes (cables were only used for yaw control and I believe they were only connect to the forward rotor so that when the helicopter yawed it pivoted about the rear rotor - I think). The hydraulic servo actuators were located under the cockpit floor. This resulted in very positive inputs from the cockpit controls to the servos but from the servos to the respective rotor heads the control motion, particularly to the rear rotor some 30 feet away could be a little 'spongey', particularly in the 'push' sense. A later modifcation installed nylon fairleads along the entire length of the flight controls to the rear rotor to prevent/minimise 'bowing' of the rods under these 'push' conditions.
I don't recall too much about airframe twisting but I do remember that structural cracking was virtually absent. And don't even get me started about the notorious engine starting system.
For those of you who know, or may know, people from this period I now recall the name Flt. Lt. John Dicken (corect spelling?) whom I later heard went to a VIP helicopter operation in the London area. I remember him as a big jovial guy who, when no one was looking, was quite happy to call me by my nick name, I was an SAC (Senior Aircraftsman) at the time. For the non-British, this is one rank below Corporal - but they were keeping an eye on me!
Finally, can someone please explain how I remember all of this when I occasionally leave home having forgotten to zip-up my fly?
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
I recall vivid accounts of engine starts....with grass fires...engine fires...forest fires!
Troops rappelling almost....when the old dears were sat upon the ground.
Somethng about the landing gear being a bit long to accomodate carrying a torpedo or something like that.
The Belvedere had to be an interesting thing for all concerned!
Troops rappelling almost....when the old dears were sat upon the ground.
Somethng about the landing gear being a bit long to accomodate carrying a torpedo or something like that.
The Belvedere had to be an interesting thing for all concerned!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: UK
what is this guy doing
Alan Styles was indeed a Belvedere Pilot on 66 Sqn, one of the Flt Sgt Pilots.
Jack Trigg was a Master Pilot on 103 Sqn flying Whirlwinds.
I was one of the Air Engineers drafted in as Helicopter Crewman on 103 Sqn. I acted as Belvedere Crewman during an exercise to cover for a colleague who had to be medevac back to Seletar. I flew as crew for Alan and the 66 Sqn Cdr - Sqn Ldr Gray.
Jack Trigg was a Master Pilot on 103 Sqn flying Whirlwinds.
I was one of the Air Engineers drafted in as Helicopter Crewman on 103 Sqn. I acted as Belvedere Crewman during an exercise to cover for a colleague who had to be medevac back to Seletar. I flew as crew for Alan and the 66 Sqn Cdr - Sqn Ldr Gray.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 70
Likes: 1
From: Home:California. Work: the lower 48
I'd like to claim some kind of tenuous link to this thread. I was born at RAF Changi in 1966. Dad was a Cpl in the RAF at the time.
A little embarrassed to admit that I shall have to google "Belvedere"....strictly a 500 guy myself these days.
A little embarrassed to admit that I shall have to google "Belvedere"....strictly a 500 guy myself these days.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Jack Trigg
As this is my first contribution to Prune, I am delighted that my first comments are to agree with those mentions of Jack Trigg. Jack was a delightful man, a great pilot and a dear friend I feel very priveleged to have known and flown with. As mentioned by others he had a fund of humorous stories that never failed to raise a laugh.
