Coastguard airlift
Offshorebear - I think the only issue here, and one we keep coming back to, is that it is all very well investing in the shiny new hardware but the man-machine interface needs regular practice to keep up the required skill levels.
After all the millions of pounds of investment, it seems stupid to 'spoil the ship for a h'aporth of tar' to use an old maritime adage. But that is what you get when accountants rule the world
After all the millions of pounds of investment, it seems stupid to 'spoil the ship for a h'aporth of tar' to use an old maritime adage. But that is what you get when accountants rule the world
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Crab,
you must remember that Jigsaw is also a new outfit with only 3 years experience operating in their environment, which is not only the North Sea but also within the confines of the Oil and Gas Industry and the CAA/JAR and soon EASA regs.
What currencies are required for certain skills? Your currency requirements have been borne out of years of experience(and as I remember the currency requirements kept changing to either fit the amount of flying that you could get depending on projected serviceability of the fleet). Jigsaw have to deal with the requirements from their customers and CAA oversight - as far as I am aware there have been no issues regarding this. If there are any issues regarding currencies etc then produce the document that details these so funding can be acquired(no different than doing a Training Needs Analysis in the RAF and then trying to work where the money is going to come from before you can get anything done).
Also as far as I am aware they are not a dedicated SAR asset for the general use of the ARCCK, they are for the use of the BP and other contracting companies.
As they got the winchman to the casualty to stabilize him, why not use the CG helo to actually evacuate him? That gets the casualty better and keeps the Jigsaw asset where it is supposed to be. What's the issue? I remember being tasked to finish a job started by Boulmer, but as they had gone u/s and their casualty have acute appendicitus we went to finish it(when I was flying Yellow). I was also tasked to take an engineer to fix the Boulmer helo(night stopping on a rig). I was initially anti this as far as I was concerned the casualty's needs were paramount and we shouldn't waste time delivering the engineer. I was told to get off my high horse and get on with it and do you know what, I was wrong. we got the casualty and recovered the Boulmer aircraft and everyone was a winner.
When you get some breadth of experience in doing SAR in different theatres and with different operators you might gain some perspective. It's not all about one helicopter-one job it is about using the toys effectively to achieve a number of objectives - some of which you may not be aware of down in your little pit in Devon(the North Sea is a long way away).
Anyway if you want to have your little crusade to make things all light blue then instead of bleating on public forums and upsetting people who may not be able answer back(think about the position the RAF ends up in whenever anything goes wrong in a Yellow helicopter(winchmen injured during training/rescues, tip strikes, crashes during OCU training, poorly thought out airtests, Tail rotor blades fitted the wrong way round by contractors, SAR Flights being declared unfit due to contracturalisation(sp?), new model helicopters refused to be accepted, mods fitted to aircraft without supporting documentation/flight testing, flypasts a building level during parades etc I could go on). when these things happen sometimes you don't have the right of reply and maybe the Jigsaw boys are in the same boat or maybe they don't care about your narrow minded and ill informed drivel.
PM me if you want to chat further, as I have no intention of furthering this thread as it serves no purpose - this a rumour network, if you want to continue please got to UPSlN.com (Unprofessional Pilots Slagging Network) to carry on.
I am not in Jigsaw by the way, but I can read the rubbish on these forums. I have to say I am somewhat disappointed and disillusioned with the rubbish coming from a SAR QHI that I used to hold in high regard when I was a Yellow Hatter.
Saint Evil
editted to get rid of a rubbish icon
you must remember that Jigsaw is also a new outfit with only 3 years experience operating in their environment, which is not only the North Sea but also within the confines of the Oil and Gas Industry and the CAA/JAR and soon EASA regs.
What currencies are required for certain skills? Your currency requirements have been borne out of years of experience(and as I remember the currency requirements kept changing to either fit the amount of flying that you could get depending on projected serviceability of the fleet). Jigsaw have to deal with the requirements from their customers and CAA oversight - as far as I am aware there have been no issues regarding this. If there are any issues regarding currencies etc then produce the document that details these so funding can be acquired(no different than doing a Training Needs Analysis in the RAF and then trying to work where the money is going to come from before you can get anything done).
Also as far as I am aware they are not a dedicated SAR asset for the general use of the ARCCK, they are for the use of the BP and other contracting companies.
As they got the winchman to the casualty to stabilize him, why not use the CG helo to actually evacuate him? That gets the casualty better and keeps the Jigsaw asset where it is supposed to be. What's the issue? I remember being tasked to finish a job started by Boulmer, but as they had gone u/s and their casualty have acute appendicitus we went to finish it(when I was flying Yellow). I was also tasked to take an engineer to fix the Boulmer helo(night stopping on a rig). I was initially anti this as far as I was concerned the casualty's needs were paramount and we shouldn't waste time delivering the engineer. I was told to get off my high horse and get on with it and do you know what, I was wrong. we got the casualty and recovered the Boulmer aircraft and everyone was a winner.
When you get some breadth of experience in doing SAR in different theatres and with different operators you might gain some perspective. It's not all about one helicopter-one job it is about using the toys effectively to achieve a number of objectives - some of which you may not be aware of down in your little pit in Devon(the North Sea is a long way away).
Anyway if you want to have your little crusade to make things all light blue then instead of bleating on public forums and upsetting people who may not be able answer back(think about the position the RAF ends up in whenever anything goes wrong in a Yellow helicopter(winchmen injured during training/rescues, tip strikes, crashes during OCU training, poorly thought out airtests, Tail rotor blades fitted the wrong way round by contractors, SAR Flights being declared unfit due to contracturalisation(sp?), new model helicopters refused to be accepted, mods fitted to aircraft without supporting documentation/flight testing, flypasts a building level during parades etc I could go on). when these things happen sometimes you don't have the right of reply and maybe the Jigsaw boys are in the same boat or maybe they don't care about your narrow minded and ill informed drivel.
PM me if you want to chat further, as I have no intention of furthering this thread as it serves no purpose - this a rumour network, if you want to continue please got to UPSlN.com (Unprofessional Pilots Slagging Network) to carry on.
I am not in Jigsaw by the way, but I can read the rubbish on these forums. I have to say I am somewhat disappointed and disillusioned with the rubbish coming from a SAR QHI that I used to hold in high regard when I was a Yellow Hatter.
Saint Evil
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failure
just heard from a friend that Jigsaw morale is v low as these guys dont seem to be able to perform not due to the people but the system.
seems the offshore bears are very worried if they dont have a dedicated ERRV with them as most other platforms and MODU have!
seems the offshore bears are very worried if they dont have a dedicated ERRV with them as most other platforms and MODU have!
An interesting rant Saint Evil but you miss my whole raison d'etre on SAR threads entirely. I don't desire the whole SAR world to be light blue, SARH is an inevitability and probably (in the end) a good thing since the military seems keen to wash its hands of SAR. My recurring theme has been that if you are going to contractorise SAR then do it properly, not on the cheap, and not by claiming capability that doesn't exist.
All the anti-mil brigade's claims about mil SAR being more expensive always boil down to training, or lack of it and this appears to be a problem with Jigsaw. I know there are capable people there but even ex-HSU pilots will get blunt with no training, especially over the water at night.
If you have lost respect for me because I care about SAR and about the poor buggers who deserve a decent service when one is promised to them then so be it - I cannot sit back and say nothing about a system that is clearly not working.
Jigsaw aircraft may be non-declared but they are still UK SAR assets and should be expected to do any job they are tasked to. If the N Sea workers don't have confidence in them there must be a reason.
Thankyou for the lecture about utilisation of SAR assets and gaining experience in role - just remind me when you were a travelling Sqn QHI current on two types and doing shifts at 3 different flights for 5 years again.
All the anti-mil brigade's claims about mil SAR being more expensive always boil down to training, or lack of it and this appears to be a problem with Jigsaw. I know there are capable people there but even ex-HSU pilots will get blunt with no training, especially over the water at night.
If you have lost respect for me because I care about SAR and about the poor buggers who deserve a decent service when one is promised to them then so be it - I cannot sit back and say nothing about a system that is clearly not working.
Jigsaw aircraft may be non-declared but they are still UK SAR assets and should be expected to do any job they are tasked to. If the N Sea workers don't have confidence in them there must be a reason.
Thankyou for the lecture about utilisation of SAR assets and gaining experience in role - just remind me when you were a travelling Sqn QHI current on two types and doing shifts at 3 different flights for 5 years again
.
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Old naval 'sayings'.........
CRAB
Just for the record your assertion that 'To spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar' is an old naval expression is far from the truth. The saying is in fact an old farming expression and is derived from the words TO SPOIL THE SHEEP FOR A HA'PETH OF TAR'.
Tar was the only affordable medication for treating maggot infestation prior to the development of vetinary pharmeceuticals.
G.
Just for the record your assertion that 'To spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar' is an old naval expression is far from the truth. The saying is in fact an old farming expression and is derived from the words TO SPOIL THE SHEEP FOR A HA'PETH OF TAR'.
Tar was the only affordable medication for treating maggot infestation prior to the development of vetinary pharmeceuticals.
G.
Geoffers - every day is a school day
Isn't google a wonderful thing?
Isn't google a wonderful thing?
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!00 years.....
CRAB
Well us 'fish'eds' have been at this aviation game for 100 years now (not me personally you understand) so I feel it encumbant upon me to continue educating our junior service colleagues. If you want to know about aviation ask a sailor.
Google has it's purposes but I actually learnt about that little saying on the BBC Radio 4 programme 'Quote, Unquote' many moons ago. Until then I too imagined shipwrights with little pots of tar dabbing the wounds of beached wooden warships.
G.
Well us 'fish'eds' have been at this aviation game for 100 years now (not me personally you understand) so I feel it encumbant upon me to continue educating our junior service colleagues. If you want to know about aviation ask a sailor.
Google has it's purposes but I actually learnt about that little saying on the BBC Radio 4 programme 'Quote, Unquote' many moons ago. Until then I too imagined shipwrights with little pots of tar dabbing the wounds of beached wooden warships.
G.
Green! are you mad? Then I'd have to fly soldiers and USLs and do ash and trash missions and all that tedious SH stuff, not to mention dodging bullets! That's a game for young men not old knackers like me
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Then I'd have to fly soldiers and USLs and do ash and trash missions and all that tedious SH stuff, not to mention dodging bullets!
Epiphany - no I did that and it gets very samey very quickly - if you want to be a troop bus driver then fine but I'll stick with rescuing people thanks.
Wiretensioner - this is a forum for discussions - just because you don't like my point of view doesn't mean I should give up contributing.
Wiretensioner - this is a forum for discussions - just because you don't like my point of view doesn't mean I should give up contributing.
