B-212, in flight loss of door
Thread Starter
B-212, in flight loss of door
I am trying gather information on any occurrences involving the separation of passenger doors in flight on B-212 aircraft. I am referring specifically to any incidents involving a door that was open and was (or was thought to be) properly pinned.
I am aware of some SOP's that require doors to be either closed or removed -- but NOT open -- when pax are onboard. At least one of those SOP's came about as a result of the loss, in flight, of the starboard pax door of a 212. In that event the pax and crew were extremely lucky as the door deflected downward after smacking into the horizontal stab.
Internet research has so far resulted in very little info. Any and all info or leads greatly appreciated.
grizz
I am aware of some SOP's that require doors to be either closed or removed -- but NOT open -- when pax are onboard. At least one of those SOP's came about as a result of the loss, in flight, of the starboard pax door of a 212. In that event the pax and crew were extremely lucky as the door deflected downward after smacking into the horizontal stab.
Internet research has so far resulted in very little info. Any and all info or leads greatly appreciated.
grizz
Grizz
You may find something in my collection of B212 incidents.
Griffin Helicopters | Accident Database
If i get time later I'll see if I can find any specifically, there is one that mentions forward door attachment in the narrative.
Splot hopefully this is within the spirit of things, if not please bin it, I am just a bit busy to do the filtering and find specific ones at the moment.
Gary
You may find something in my collection of B212 incidents.
Griffin Helicopters | Accident Database
If i get time later I'll see if I can find any specifically, there is one that mentions forward door attachment in the narrative.
Splot hopefully this is within the spirit of things, if not please bin it, I am just a bit busy to do the filtering and find specific ones at the moment.
Gary
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Door
On two occassions, i know of a B212 almost loosing the right side door. Both times the crewman had to hold it so it would night fly off. Apparently the top mounts which the door rolls on gave way. Since these events they have upgraded those door mounts.
Thread Starter
Cleartorotate
Thanks very much for that. Can you please PM me with any more detail you might have re either of those incidents? (i.e.: company, location, date (if known) and any contact info for anyone who may have more info).
Grizz
Grizz
Griz,
You might contact the US Army Safety folks in Fort Rucker, Alabama and see what kind of data they have on UH-1's and door losses as they by far have the most hours of anyone operating those aircraft. I am sure they lost aircraft due to lost cabin doors.
Try this e-mail addy and see if it works for you......
[email protected] <[email protected]>
Also a point of interest is whether the aircraft had the Mod which required door stops on the exterior of the aircraft and the safety pin and latching device inside the cabin itself. Without those I would not dream of flying with a door open....and have done quite a bit of open door flight in UH-1's.
You might contact the US Army Safety folks in Fort Rucker, Alabama and see what kind of data they have on UH-1's and door losses as they by far have the most hours of anyone operating those aircraft. I am sure they lost aircraft due to lost cabin doors.
Try this e-mail addy and see if it works for you......
[email protected] <[email protected]>
Also a point of interest is whether the aircraft had the Mod which required door stops on the exterior of the aircraft and the safety pin and latching device inside the cabin itself. Without those I would not dream of flying with a door open....and have done quite a bit of open door flight in UH-1's.
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The Canadian Forces have lost at least one door on the 212 and one on the 412 (that I am aware off) that were properly pinned. I know the 212 was due to exceeding the doors open and pined Vne (80kts I think at the time for the 212 and 120kts for most 412 configs). Both doors went through the rotor system, you don't want to see the blade pictures from the 412 incident...
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I recall a New Zealand Air Force door coming off in flight. I am assuming that they are built the same as, or similar to a 212. Although pinned back open, the sliders can wear or the airframe slot that the sliders ride in can wear. Either way the gap widens and off it comes. Usually down due weight and rotorwash. Have not heard of one hitting main or tail rotors.
Sorry, forgot to point out NZ Air Force operate UH1's (H model)
Sorry, forgot to point out NZ Air Force operate UH1's (H model)
The Bell 412CF door that flew up into the rotor was after dropping skydivers.
Want to keep the doors on? Simple, make sure they are inspected/adjusted properly and follow the limitations section of the flight manual.
Works for most of the folks out there
Want to keep the doors on? Simple, make sure they are inspected/adjusted properly and follow the limitations section of the flight manual.
Works for most of the folks out there
Thread Starter
Encyclo
I'd like more info on which 412 you're talking about. If you don't mind PMing me, that would be great.
When you say "the 412" it sounds like you may not know (as I didn't 'til I was involved in one of these incidents) that there have been many -- far more than you would imagine, and far more than Bell (whomever they are today) acknowledge. And my info so far shows that the standard proections you suggest will not necessarily prevent or even alert you to a problem. The most common reason is failiure of an apparently healthy part. I will be happy to share my findings with you when I'm done.
In the meantime, if you're flying a 212 or 412 and want the doors open, the safest way to do that is to fly with the doors removed.
Grizz
When you say "the 412" it sounds like you may not know (as I didn't 'til I was involved in one of these incidents) that there have been many -- far more than you would imagine, and far more than Bell (whomever they are today) acknowledge. And my info so far shows that the standard proections you suggest will not necessarily prevent or even alert you to a problem. The most common reason is failiure of an apparently healthy part. I will be happy to share my findings with you when I'm done.
In the meantime, if you're flying a 212 or 412 and want the doors open, the safest way to do that is to fly with the doors removed.
Grizz
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I remember a door coming off a 205A1, hit both main rotor blades taking chunks out and leaving some gaping holes. Didn't affect the aircraft in any way and landed safely. I was right behind it in a squirrel and saw 2/3rds of the door dug upright in a field. The door was "locked" open at the time and the rear/top mounting failed.
Hi Grizz,
All I remember is that the 412CF incident occurred at an airshow around 2005, maybe in Quebec City or Valcartier (430 Sqn). I do not have further details but I recommend you check on the Canadian Forces Flight Incidents Reports site; excellent site, very objective.
Directorate of Flight Safety -- Flight Safety Magazine -- Flight Comment
My personnal info is that doors flying off are usually related to issues with door adjustment or aircraft operations outside approved FM limitations.
If you have cases that prove otherwise, maybe you should contact the folks at Bell so they can act on it and make safe for all drivers & fixers
All I remember is that the 412CF incident occurred at an airshow around 2005, maybe in Quebec City or Valcartier (430 Sqn). I do not have further details but I recommend you check on the Canadian Forces Flight Incidents Reports site; excellent site, very objective.
Directorate of Flight Safety -- Flight Safety Magazine -- Flight Comment
My personnal info is that doors flying off are usually related to issues with door adjustment or aircraft operations outside approved FM limitations.
If you have cases that prove otherwise, maybe you should contact the folks at Bell so they can act on it and make safe for all drivers & fixers
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Pacific Helicopters lost the L/H Co-pilots door in Afghanistan....hit the Main & T/R considered a sudden stoppage,removed and replaced the engines and main TX....strange whats that red handle do!!!!
