IFR co-pilot briefing
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IFR co-pilot briefing
Sometime in the next month I am going to have to take an instrument checkride. I have not "flown" instruments in many, many years and never in a two pilot crew. I will have a co-pilot and was just curious if there is a "standard" co-pilot type brief. I know that I am going to want him to tune and identify, make the radio calls, etc, but what do you guys that actually work the system use as a pre-flight co-pliot brief?
Thanks
Thanks
My experience is it's typically a flying pilot to non-flying pilot brief about what he's going to do. The goal would be to clarify what the flying pilot is going to do and see if the non-flying pilot has any input on it.
If the non-flying pilot (NFP) doesn't know which class/category etc... non-flying pilot isn't going to provide the correct airspeed calls etc.. If NFP doesn't know you're landing on the taxiway then he's going to wonder what the hell is going on when you're not lining up for the runway etc..
Depending on the experience on type/location/operation etc... the breifing could be provided by either pilot as the other pilot might have limited experience with that scenario.
It's in our checklists for the before take-off and approach/descent checks. Of course there is on-going briefings going on between both pilots as the situation dictates.
If the company you're doing a ride with has good SOP's then basic briefings should be provided in the manuals and all you have to do is customize the briefing to your scenario.
If the non-flying pilot (NFP) doesn't know which class/category etc... non-flying pilot isn't going to provide the correct airspeed calls etc.. If NFP doesn't know you're landing on the taxiway then he's going to wonder what the hell is going on when you're not lining up for the runway etc..
Depending on the experience on type/location/operation etc... the breifing could be provided by either pilot as the other pilot might have limited experience with that scenario.
It's in our checklists for the before take-off and approach/descent checks. Of course there is on-going briefings going on between both pilots as the situation dictates.
If the company you're doing a ride with has good SOP's then basic briefings should be provided in the manuals and all you have to do is customize the briefing to your scenario.
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Hey Foggy,
You said: "...and never in a two pilot crew". Thats a good point where to start. Obviously you are experienced pilot, but never had a change to fly with in crew. It is a different world, I went through that point few years a go and it wasn't easy in the beginning. I hope that your check ride is more kind of evaluation flight than a check ride to pass some level. Crew coordination is not a automation, it needs work and that workhorse is company's training. Co-pilot briefing... Hhmmm, maybe best brief is: Crab your check list and start sequence from first line. Whole idea is a to give a challenge and have a response. No hurry, take your time and give that time.
Thats my comment, good luck
Hostile
You said: "...and never in a two pilot crew". Thats a good point where to start. Obviously you are experienced pilot, but never had a change to fly with in crew. It is a different world, I went through that point few years a go and it wasn't easy in the beginning. I hope that your check ride is more kind of evaluation flight than a check ride to pass some level. Crew coordination is not a automation, it needs work and that workhorse is company's training. Co-pilot briefing... Hhmmm, maybe best brief is: Crab your check list and start sequence from first line. Whole idea is a to give a challenge and have a response. No hurry, take your time and give that time.
Thats my comment, good luck
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Really though, there should be an overall briefing. There are numerous guides out there. Things that should be covered are division of duties, normal procedures, control changes, deviations from parameters, and other factors.
There also should be a briefing before the initial takeoff including speeds, abort points/speeds, configuration, emergencies.
Each approach will need its own briefing including things such as the weather, navaids, timing (if required), radios and other cockpit setup, then the actual approach including fixes, altitudes, step-down points, missed approach procedures, control change (or not) at the bottom.
You should find something suitable for the aircraft in question and practice it using actual approach plates and actual planning numbers until you understand it and can reel it off easily.
There also should be a briefing before the initial takeoff including speeds, abort points/speeds, configuration, emergencies.
Each approach will need its own briefing including things such as the weather, navaids, timing (if required), radios and other cockpit setup, then the actual approach including fixes, altitudes, step-down points, missed approach procedures, control change (or not) at the bottom.
You should find something suitable for the aircraft in question and practice it using actual approach plates and actual planning numbers until you understand it and can reel it off easily.
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A good pre-flight brief isn't a one-way conversation, with you doing all the talking and the FO sitting there "yes sir, yes sir.... okay sir." You'll both be talking things over and briefing together as you go in a rather informal way. You'll discuss routes, fuel, alternates and all that fun stuff together. Of course you'll have the final say in everything, but utilize the FO and his/her opinion.
Toughest part of the job for an FO is learning each Captain's individual quirks. Stick to the SOPs and you'll make their job 10 times easier, which in turn makes your job easier.
Toughest part of the job for an FO is learning each Captain's individual quirks. Stick to the SOPs and you'll make their job 10 times easier, which in turn makes your job easier.
Foggy said he was going to be taking a check ride structured on a two crew environment.
Is there not a difference in the way the "co-pilot" performs on the check ride (examiner acting as co-pilot) than normally happens in a regular line flight?
You might pass on those comments to Foggy as well.
Is there not a difference in the way the "co-pilot" performs on the check ride (examiner acting as co-pilot) than normally happens in a regular line flight?
You might pass on those comments to Foggy as well.
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Don't let pride get in the way. The Co-Pilot may be more current on instruments than you are and may be used to operating in a multi-crew environment. Use him/her to best advantage but remember that you're a team of two, not Captain and his little helper. Ask the Co-Pilot to speak up if he/she notices any errors and ommisions on your part. Brief him'her on exactly what you require, for example, "I'll expect you to call out check heights on the approach" or "I'll expect you to call approaching 3 DME". Confirm the facts, for example, "we'll be climbing to Altitude 5000' on this SID" and ensure that you're both in agreement. End the briefing with "Any questions?" Nowadays, CRM is part of the checkride assessment.
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All that's true, and especially in the real world, CRM is decidedly a two-way street between the pilots... but on a checkride, it depends to some degree upon how it's set up. If the examiner's in the other seat, they may act as a less-than-forthcoming voice-activated copilot for the purposes of CRM (unrealistic, but you need to be prepared for it).
If you're lucky like I have occasionally been, the examiner sits in a jumpseat and you have another fellow you know in the copilot's seat. There are also examiners who are realistic and excellent as copilots and have no problem shifting roles for better fidelity to reality.
Regardless, the examiner is going to be focusing on you, so you need to know all the nuances of the briefing and CRM. "Y'know what I mean?" should probably not be part of your briefing.
If you're lucky like I have occasionally been, the examiner sits in a jumpseat and you have another fellow you know in the copilot's seat. There are also examiners who are realistic and excellent as copilots and have no problem shifting roles for better fidelity to reality.
Regardless, the examiner is going to be focusing on you, so you need to know all the nuances of the briefing and CRM. "Y'know what I mean?" should probably not be part of your briefing.
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This is what I have come up with so far...feel free to add or critique..This is not meant to be an approach brief, but a preflight briefing...thanks for the input..
The Non-flying pilot will:
Tune and identify the Nav Aids
Set the courses as directed
Make the radio calls as directed by the flying pilot.
Call out 1,000’ and 100’ before any assigned altitudes.
Point out any deviations approaching 100’ in altitude, 10 knots of airspeed or 10 degrees of heading.
Advise the flying pilot prior to changing any frequencies or moving any switches.
Vy, VminI and VTOSS calls
Positive transfer of controls…3 statements…
The Non-flying pilot will:
Tune and identify the Nav Aids
Set the courses as directed
Make the radio calls as directed by the flying pilot.
Call out 1,000’ and 100’ before any assigned altitudes.
Point out any deviations approaching 100’ in altitude, 10 knots of airspeed or 10 degrees of heading.
Advise the flying pilot prior to changing any frequencies or moving any switches.
Vy, VminI and VTOSS calls
Positive transfer of controls…3 statements…
Monitor for icing.
Carry out emergency drills/read the checklist as required, waiting for confirmation before moving switches, levers etc.
Advise if IMC/VMC - just because you are flying IFR doesn't mean you have to be in cloud.
Confirm your calculations for holds.
Call when he has the required visual references on the approach for the landing.
Carry out emergency drills/read the checklist as required, waiting for confirmation before moving switches, levers etc.
Advise if IMC/VMC - just because you are flying IFR doesn't mean you have to be in cloud.
Confirm your calculations for holds.
Call when he has the required visual references on the approach for the landing.
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Hi Foggy, Single to Multi Crew transition is not that easy, I have seen guys struggle with this before, it's hard to call for things to be done rather than do it yourself, the idea of communication-action sounds too long winded and it seems really kack handed initially, (strewth, it would be easier if I did it myself).
In terms of briefings, I would suggest the list you have offered come under SOPs, if you brief a pilot what they already know then all you accomplish is the 'Wall of Sound' effect and nothing goes in. We found this particularly in the FW world and while not attempting to say 'We do it better' (we don't in many cases), the style we find most useful is 'Brief the Threats': This is an NDB/DME approach Rwy 27, the inbound course is offset by 7 degrees, we are expecting to see a runway in our 11 o'clock with PAPIs on the left hand side. There is a parallel taxiway on the right and I will do my best to avoid landing on it. Big mountain to the west and the sector safe is xx. Expecting icing conditions etc, etc.
As a brief 'patter' we use CTWO for take off and CTWOF for landing.
C Charts - not the whole gruesome detail, just an outline with the relevant items.
T Terrain - where is it and how high.
W Weather - is it marginal, CAVOK, any windshear.
O Operational - use of anti ice, wx radar etc.
F Fuel - only relevant for landing since you want to know how long you have to stooge around and where you go if you can't get in.
Regards
TOD
In terms of briefings, I would suggest the list you have offered come under SOPs, if you brief a pilot what they already know then all you accomplish is the 'Wall of Sound' effect and nothing goes in. We found this particularly in the FW world and while not attempting to say 'We do it better' (we don't in many cases), the style we find most useful is 'Brief the Threats': This is an NDB/DME approach Rwy 27, the inbound course is offset by 7 degrees, we are expecting to see a runway in our 11 o'clock with PAPIs on the left hand side. There is a parallel taxiway on the right and I will do my best to avoid landing on it. Big mountain to the west and the sector safe is xx. Expecting icing conditions etc, etc.
As a brief 'patter' we use CTWO for take off and CTWOF for landing.
C Charts - not the whole gruesome detail, just an outline with the relevant items.
T Terrain - where is it and how high.
W Weather - is it marginal, CAVOK, any windshear.
O Operational - use of anti ice, wx radar etc.
F Fuel - only relevant for landing since you want to know how long you have to stooge around and where you go if you can't get in.
Regards
TOD
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Our SOP is:
Ground
Complete briefing between Handling Pilot (HP) and Non Handling Pilot (NHP) relating to Weather, Notams, Destinations, Navaids, Charts etc
To keep the info simple lets presume that HP is you as being tested and NHP is the Co Pilot ( in real life we have no difference as its always a HP and NHP regardless of our company ranks)
Start up
HP brief NHP on start up procedures
NHP carries on Checklists
HP starts up Eng1 with NHP having full controls
HP performs RIN switch on
HP starts up Eng2
HP performs full RIN and indents
HP takes full controls and complete start up procedures
HP brief NHP on taxi procedures, Take Off procedures
HP hands over controls to NHP to carry out Taxi and Take Off
HP to carry out Checklists
Take Off
HP take over controls at 200" and resume full flight command
NHP to assist with RIN requirements, ATC n Checklists
Cruise
Once Heli is settled, HP ask NHP to get his/her IFR Charts
HP hands over control to NHP
HP brief NHP on the approach plate, designation, ATC Freq, Nav Aids, Rnw Course, DA, Missed Approach and ask if NHP has any questions
HP takes over controls and performs required Approach
NHP performs ATC, Navaids including Idents, Timing over holds, beacons etc
NHP monitors T & Ps, tells HP any deviations from CDI, ADI
Its the basic SOP... but as someone said above its all about CRM (Crew Resources Management) meaning there 2 of u in the cabin and u can really challenge each other if ur not happy, and remain safe. Our days, some F/O's have more experience overall than the actual Captain, but its the way your contract works out....
Fly Safe
WLM
Ground
Complete briefing between Handling Pilot (HP) and Non Handling Pilot (NHP) relating to Weather, Notams, Destinations, Navaids, Charts etc
To keep the info simple lets presume that HP is you as being tested and NHP is the Co Pilot ( in real life we have no difference as its always a HP and NHP regardless of our company ranks)
Start up
HP brief NHP on start up procedures
NHP carries on Checklists
HP starts up Eng1 with NHP having full controls
HP performs RIN switch on
HP starts up Eng2
HP performs full RIN and indents
HP takes full controls and complete start up procedures
HP brief NHP on taxi procedures, Take Off procedures
HP hands over controls to NHP to carry out Taxi and Take Off
HP to carry out Checklists
Take Off
HP take over controls at 200" and resume full flight command
NHP to assist with RIN requirements, ATC n Checklists
Cruise
Once Heli is settled, HP ask NHP to get his/her IFR Charts
HP hands over control to NHP
HP brief NHP on the approach plate, designation, ATC Freq, Nav Aids, Rnw Course, DA, Missed Approach and ask if NHP has any questions
HP takes over controls and performs required Approach
NHP performs ATC, Navaids including Idents, Timing over holds, beacons etc
NHP monitors T & Ps, tells HP any deviations from CDI, ADI
Its the basic SOP... but as someone said above its all about CRM (Crew Resources Management) meaning there 2 of u in the cabin and u can really challenge each other if ur not happy, and remain safe. Our days, some F/O's have more experience overall than the actual Captain, but its the way your contract works out....
Fly Safe
WLM
WLM,
I know this might be a serious topic to you.....but as I read your post I was reminded of that classic BA Memorandum of a few years ago that sought to clarify cockpit procedures.
The one that tried to explain the HP/NHP and trade off of controls during various phases of flight in VMC/IMC weather.
I wish I had that to post here as it would make yours seem a bit complicated.
Things were going good until we got to the point where the HP was starting engines and the NHP was holding the controls. When we then got to the HP gave the controls back to the NHP for the taxi and takeoff.......well I started thinking of the BA Memo and started giggling.
I will admit I did not get very far beyond gear up on takeoff before I was just plain laughing....thinking of the BA Memo.
So much for the days of...."You drive Shag and I will do the rest!"
I know this might be a serious topic to you.....but as I read your post I was reminded of that classic BA Memorandum of a few years ago that sought to clarify cockpit procedures.
The one that tried to explain the HP/NHP and trade off of controls during various phases of flight in VMC/IMC weather.
I wish I had that to post here as it would make yours seem a bit complicated.
Things were going good until we got to the point where the HP was starting engines and the NHP was holding the controls. When we then got to the HP gave the controls back to the NHP for the taxi and takeoff.......well I started thinking of the BA Memo and started giggling.
I will admit I did not get very far beyond gear up on takeoff before I was just plain laughing....thinking of the BA Memo.
So much for the days of...."You drive Shag and I will do the rest!"
There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles. This notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.
The titles FP, NFP, P1, P2 and Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the operations manuals. They are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the Handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots.
The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since the Landing Pilot is Handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the Handling Pilot until after the Before Descent Checklist completion, when the Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude" call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of "land" or "go-around", as appropriate.
In view of the recent confusion over these rules, it was deemed necessary to restate them clearly.
The titles FP, NFP, P1, P2 and Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the operations manuals. They are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the Handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots.
The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since the Landing Pilot is Handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the Handling Pilot until after the Before Descent Checklist completion, when the Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude" call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of "land" or "go-around", as appropriate.
In view of the recent confusion over these rules, it was deemed necessary to restate them clearly.
Thank you BB....that is the one!