Why American Aviation is so Remarkable
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Cosider the state !
Keep in mind this occured in Texas ! Not really part of the US, we only claim it for the mineral rights. If you would like to become VERY wealthy merely open an automobile brake repair shop or Body shop there....you would do very well indeed.
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topend,
Hate to burst your bubble, but one of the Wright bros early findings was that Octave Chanute didn't know beans about lift, drag or control, so if Chanute learned stuff from Hargrave, it fell on deaf ears.
When the Wrights tried to measure the "laws" that were previously taken as gospel, they were astounded that their wind tunnel data proved most of the prior work to be drivel. The wind tunnel work done by the Wrights established the field of aeronautical science as we know it. No other previous experimenter had developed lateral control, nor did they characterize the essence of lift, moment, power and drag to any usable degree. The concepts that were previously used were essentially unworkable, but impressive to newspaper reporters and debunkers who would flood the field once the Wrights flew.
In doubt? Find one reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in any other previous or contemporary work. Or pitching moment, stall characteristics or lateral control. Without some mastry of these concepts, controlled flight was not possible, even if a statue exists in every country on the planet where a favorite son "flew" some kind of device "years before the Wrights."
Hate to burst your bubble, but one of the Wright bros early findings was that Octave Chanute didn't know beans about lift, drag or control, so if Chanute learned stuff from Hargrave, it fell on deaf ears.
When the Wrights tried to measure the "laws" that were previously taken as gospel, they were astounded that their wind tunnel data proved most of the prior work to be drivel. The wind tunnel work done by the Wrights established the field of aeronautical science as we know it. No other previous experimenter had developed lateral control, nor did they characterize the essence of lift, moment, power and drag to any usable degree. The concepts that were previously used were essentially unworkable, but impressive to newspaper reporters and debunkers who would flood the field once the Wrights flew.
In doubt? Find one reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in any other previous or contemporary work. Or pitching moment, stall characteristics or lateral control. Without some mastry of these concepts, controlled flight was not possible, even if a statue exists in every country on the planet where a favorite son "flew" some kind of device "years before the Wrights."
Senior Pilot - if you are going to delete post which are critical of American aviation will you do the same to the jingoistic high-fiving of Sasless' post (which has nothing to do with the thread or with helicopters)?
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Dear Mr Noodles,
Since you asked - here's a couple of examples of a reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in the work of Sir George Cayley, a British scientist, in the early 1800s.
Sir George Cayley – Making Aviation Practical
Sir George Cayley Research | Find Sir George Cayley Articles | Encyclopedia.com: FREE Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Articles And Pictures!
In a nutshell: George Cayley knew he didnt have a suitably light engine to provide the power required.
100 years later The Wright Brothers did have access to such an engine [not to mention the research of George Cayley].
I think its better to say that the work of many, over a large timespan, contributed to the development of the aeroplane.
OOW
Since you asked - here's a couple of examples of a reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in the work of Sir George Cayley, a British scientist, in the early 1800s.
Sir George Cayley – Making Aviation Practical
Sir George Cayley Research | Find Sir George Cayley Articles | Encyclopedia.com: FREE Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Articles And Pictures!
In a nutshell: George Cayley knew he didnt have a suitably light engine to provide the power required.
100 years later The Wright Brothers did have access to such an engine [not to mention the research of George Cayley].
I think its better to say that the work of many, over a large timespan, contributed to the development of the aeroplane.
OOW
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It would appear that this kind of thing is actually not that unusual.
I had a phone call from a young flight instructor a few months ago seeking advice. Apparently a guy had arrived in an R44 seeking flight instruction. When asked for his medical/student pilot certificate he replied that he didn't possess one. He had learned to fly helicopters by strapping a 5 bar gate to the skids of an R22 and reading some books.
When I suggested that the first thing they do was to go and get a student pilot certificate it was discovered that it was not possible as the guy had lied on a previous application about not having any drunk driving offences. He used to possess a medical, but had had it revoked by the FAA.
I then recommended that the instructor politely tell the guy that he was unable to help him.
This was a good ol' Texas rancher.
I had a phone call from a young flight instructor a few months ago seeking advice. Apparently a guy had arrived in an R44 seeking flight instruction. When asked for his medical/student pilot certificate he replied that he didn't possess one. He had learned to fly helicopters by strapping a 5 bar gate to the skids of an R22 and reading some books.
When I suggested that the first thing they do was to go and get a student pilot certificate it was discovered that it was not possible as the guy had lied on a previous application about not having any drunk driving offences. He used to possess a medical, but had had it revoked by the FAA.
I then recommended that the instructor politely tell the guy that he was unable to help him.
This was a good ol' Texas rancher.
I doth think Crab protests too much....your corns getting stepped on are they ol' buddy!
I will be more careful where I walk in the future.
I will be more careful where I walk in the future.
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The formula that Noodles asked about are clearly evident in Hargraves and the others work, as was notes on the manned flight testing in towed glider mode, in mastering the tricks of control every which way.
I also believed and still do that the true merit of the Kittyhawk experiments was their invention of an engine light enough to do the trick.
Research is a compellingly interesting subject I often find, for instance who would have thought that the first powered flight in OZ was acheived by the illusionist Houdini. The first one to do it in a craft of his own construction, a gentleman by name of Badgery, a la Badgerys creek, site of the proposed second airport for sydney.
And speaking of doing silly things in machines aeronautical, another of the same Badgery's line, Peter, later had a bbit of explaining to do when the P51 that he was flying when supposedly doing formation intercept practise at 33,000 feet had an engine failure due to its radiator being stuffed full of galah feathers. The aircraft sat on the mud flats near Townsville for many years.
My dear old departed dad, his flight leader at the time reckoned it was an 'interesting conversation' that he had with the boss later, at attention of course.
I also believed and still do that the true merit of the Kittyhawk experiments was their invention of an engine light enough to do the trick.
Research is a compellingly interesting subject I often find, for instance who would have thought that the first powered flight in OZ was acheived by the illusionist Houdini. The first one to do it in a craft of his own construction, a gentleman by name of Badgery, a la Badgerys creek, site of the proposed second airport for sydney.
And speaking of doing silly things in machines aeronautical, another of the same Badgery's line, Peter, later had a bbit of explaining to do when the P51 that he was flying when supposedly doing formation intercept practise at 33,000 feet had an engine failure due to its radiator being stuffed full of galah feathers. The aircraft sat on the mud flats near Townsville for many years.
My dear old departed dad, his flight leader at the time reckoned it was an 'interesting conversation' that he had with the boss later, at attention of course.
Sasless - terribly sorry - you Yanks invented everything for you are so very great and like, totally amazing at everything. I'm sure if we were to know the ultimate truth of life, the universe and everything it would have 'made in USA' stamped on the back. In fact weren't the Dea Sea Scrolls actually written in Wisconsin and didn't the Rosetta Stone come from Rosetta, Idaho?
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"I also believed and still do that the true merit of the Kittyhawk experiments was their invention of an engine light enough to do the trick."
"their invention"? "They" didn't invent the engine, their Mechanic, Charles Taylor did.
"their invention"? "They" didn't invent the engine, their Mechanic, Charles Taylor did.
Chief Bottle Washer
This was an intrinsically interesting thread, which has deteriorated into an effort to either denigrate or praise Things American. Quite why some posters are so obsessed is beyond me, but enough is enough 
