R22 or R44: preference for rating
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R22 or R44: preference for rating
Just after a concensus of opinion.
I need to gain a piston type rating. I haven't flown a helicopter for a few years. I have been told I would get to grips with a 44 more quickly than a 22 due to the 22 having less inertia.
It all comes down to money as the 44 is more expensive but might take less time to get proficient on, but the 22 is less expensive to keep current.
Any helpful views would be appreciated to a genuine enquiery.
Thanks in anticipation.
I need to gain a piston type rating. I haven't flown a helicopter for a few years. I have been told I would get to grips with a 44 more quickly than a 22 due to the 22 having less inertia.
It all comes down to money as the 44 is more expensive but might take less time to get proficient on, but the 22 is less expensive to keep current.
Any helpful views would be appreciated to a genuine enquiery.
Thanks in anticipation.
Hovering AND talking
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Whereabouts are you? Does it have to be a Robinson? You might be better off with a Schweizer or a Bell 47.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Probably also depends why you want that rating at the first place.
If it is just to stay current for the smallest amount possible also in the future, use the cheapest means (R22?) to do exactly that. If you want to get the grip of it fast, the R44 is the way to go. Many say it fly's not much different than the B206/OH-58.
Is it much more time consuming to get used to the R22? If you have been flying helicopters before, I am not sure if that statement is still valid. I always thought that can only be valid for student pilots with absolutely no rotorwing experience. I personally find the Schweizer without RPM governor (automatic RPM control) more challenging to be honest, and it simply feels like a tractor to me
If it is just to stay current for the smallest amount possible also in the future, use the cheapest means (R22?) to do exactly that. If you want to get the grip of it fast, the R44 is the way to go. Many say it fly's not much different than the B206/OH-58.
Is it much more time consuming to get used to the R22? If you have been flying helicopters before, I am not sure if that statement is still valid. I always thought that can only be valid for student pilots with absolutely no rotorwing experience. I personally find the Schweizer without RPM governor (automatic RPM control) more challenging to be honest, and it simply feels like a tractor to me
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44 or 22
As someone who has got a lot of airtime on both types, and someone who is a complete fan of the R22 (and the 44), here's my penniworth.
If you are under 40, a motorcyclist, have a quick reactions, a sharp mind, and are less than 14 stone, then the R22 is a great training aircraft. The one caveat is that you train with someone who has at least 750 hours on type.
If you are over 40, have had a sedantry job and are new to flying, then choose the R44.
60 hours learning in a R22 will cost 15k, 45 hrs learning in a R44 will cost 18k, but expect the costs to be around 5k to 6k more in a R44 over a 22.
But if you then go on and do a 44 type rating, and/or buy a R44, you are better off starting in a R44. The cost differential becomes neglible, and the benefit of learning to fly on a type you are going to buy far outweigh the money saved.
Hope this helps,
Big Ls.
PS, just re-read the original post. My points above remain valid, but if you are coming back to flying helis, then the 22 should be fine. Just do some accompanied flying once you've got the rating. Have you got a turbine rating?
If you are under 40, a motorcyclist, have a quick reactions, a sharp mind, and are less than 14 stone, then the R22 is a great training aircraft. The one caveat is that you train with someone who has at least 750 hours on type.
If you are over 40, have had a sedantry job and are new to flying, then choose the R44.
60 hours learning in a R22 will cost 15k, 45 hrs learning in a R44 will cost 18k, but expect the costs to be around 5k to 6k more in a R44 over a 22.
But if you then go on and do a 44 type rating, and/or buy a R44, you are better off starting in a R44. The cost differential becomes neglible, and the benefit of learning to fly on a type you are going to buy far outweigh the money saved.
Hope this helps,
Big Ls.
PS, just re-read the original post. My points above remain valid, but if you are coming back to flying helis, then the 22 should be fine. Just do some accompanied flying once you've got the rating. Have you got a turbine rating?
Last edited by biggles99; 16th Dec 2008 at 16:07. Reason: re-read the original post
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If you are over 40, have had a sedantry job and are new to flying, then choose the R44.
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Take it down to the nuts and bolts and it's about cash. We'd all train on a brand new B3 if we had a money tree in the back yard.
Every helicopter is different in one way or another, but if you're talking about doing this for fun and keeping yourself current (rather than an employer) then there is NOTHING wrong with flying the 22. From an instructor's point of view, it's a very straight forward conversion to a 44 should you need/want to step up later. The inertia thing is not really an issue as you'll learn more about how to keep on top of RRPM in the 22.
However I do agree that, if you're a big lad, you may have to consider the 44.
DM
Every helicopter is different in one way or another, but if you're talking about doing this for fun and keeping yourself current (rather than an employer) then there is NOTHING wrong with flying the 22. From an instructor's point of view, it's a very straight forward conversion to a 44 should you need/want to step up later. The inertia thing is not really an issue as you'll learn more about how to keep on top of RRPM in the 22.
However I do agree that, if you're a big lad, you may have to consider the 44.
DM
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I'm not quite 40, am definately no where near 14 stone, do ride a motorbike and am in practise on aeroplanes although I do have rotary turbine experience, but no piston rotary experience to speak of.
Thanks everybody for your replies. The local hire rate for Schwitzer is more expensive than a 22.
So the decision would appear to be fairly straight cut. It has to be.......
the R22
Cheers
SFD
Thanks everybody for your replies. The local hire rate for Schwitzer is more expensive than a 22.
So the decision would appear to be fairly straight cut. It has to be.......
the R22
Cheers
SFD
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The other argument..
The other thing to bear in mind with the 22/44 dilemma is that with many schools/clubs, the 22's clock starts ticking when you start the engine. In the 44, it's more common for the clock to start when you raise the lever. So in the 22, you're spending a .1 on start and warm up and possibly another .1 on cooling and shut down. So that's .2 before you even fly. And as a go places machine, the 44 is at least 20kts faster in the cruise with a longer range between re-fuels. And it takes 4 adults, so more opportunity to fly with friends and cost share.
NP
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Sorry, just my warped sense of humour regarding the suggestion of you paying for a trial in a Raven II.
Let's put this discussion into cars....
You want to learn to drive. You have two driving schools to choose from. One has a Ford Focus, one has a Ford GT40. You already know that you would loooooooove the GT40, but it's not going to make you a better driver, just a driver with less money.....
I'd personally pay for a 22.
Let's put this discussion into cars....
You want to learn to drive. You have two driving schools to choose from. One has a Ford Focus, one has a Ford GT40. You already know that you would loooooooove the GT40, but it's not going to make you a better driver, just a driver with less money.....
I'd personally pay for a 22.
Watch out for the datcon thing argument re R22 / R44 .Yes the R22 datcon usually starts when you fire up the engine and the R44 when you lift the lever BUT most schools certainly round our way add .1 to every flight " to cover cost of fuel instructors time etc" so worth bearing in mind. I have had this waived on self fly hire with the school I most commonly use.
R
R
Hovering AND talking
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Let's put this discussion into cars....
You want to learn to drive. You have two driving schools to choose from. One has a Ford Focus, one has a Ford GT40. You already know that you would loooooooove the GT40, but it's not going to make you a better driver, just a driver with less money.....
You want to learn to drive. You have two driving schools to choose from. One has a Ford Focus, one has a Ford GT40. You already know that you would loooooooove the GT40, but it's not going to make you a better driver, just a driver with less money.....
Now, should he relearn on a Yammy FS1E or an RD250?
Cheers
Whirls
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Now steady on! I'm not that old - BSA Bantams.
I learn't on a DT125LC then progressed onto a 600 Cagiva/600 Bandit/Burgman 400/Silver Wing 600/BMW k1200GT/Harley 1200 XLH & Honda Deauville (Maybe I'm am getting old). My next bike will be either or all of the new V-Max,rotary Norton or 90 deg cranked Yamaha R600 but the stock market needs to recover abit first.
I learn't on a DT125LC then progressed onto a 600 Cagiva/600 Bandit/Burgman 400/Silver Wing 600/BMW k1200GT/Harley 1200 XLH & Honda Deauville (Maybe I'm am getting old). My next bike will be either or all of the new V-Max,rotary Norton or 90 deg cranked Yamaha R600 but the stock market needs to recover abit first.
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SFD,
I would echo the above advice and go for the 22.
I've owned both a 22 and 44.
The 22 will make you a more sensitive pilot less expensively, just don't roll it into a ball.
Flying the 44 is a piece of cake after the 22.
Just watch the carb heat and be ready on the collective.
SB
I would echo the above advice and go for the 22.
I've owned both a 22 and 44.
The 22 will make you a more sensitive pilot less expensively, just don't roll it into a ball.
Flying the 44 is a piece of cake after the 22.
Just watch the carb heat and be ready on the collective.
SB