Helicopter Rescue 600 miles off Ireland.
Crab,
This may sound snotty...but is not meant to be.
If it was within range of the UK assets as you say.
The USAF was on a 24 hour notice status.
How could they be "quicker" than the UK assets?
We have to assume the UK assets being dedicated SAR units are on a quicker response status than "24 hours".
There must be more to the situation than is described thus far.....could you clarify what else affected the sequence of events that led to the longer notice unit being the one used to carry out the task.
This may sound snotty...but is not meant to be.
If it was within range of the UK assets as you say.
The USAF was on a 24 hour notice status.
How could they be "quicker" than the UK assets?
We have to assume the UK assets being dedicated SAR units are on a quicker response status than "24 hours".
There must be more to the situation than is described thus far.....could you clarify what else affected the sequence of events that led to the longer notice unit being the one used to carry out the task.
SASless
I think the USAF readiness is 'up to 24 hrs', so how long it actually takes is affected in each case by a number of variables. British SAR assets are definitely on higher readiness!
Crab,
You back from way down south? If so, welcome home! I'm sure Lost At Sea et al will agree...!
I think the USAF readiness is 'up to 24 hrs', so how long it actually takes is affected in each case by a number of variables. British SAR assets are definitely on higher readiness!
Crab,
You back from way down south? If so, welcome home! I'm sure Lost At Sea et al will agree...!
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
I'm not sure just how much deck winching the USAF guys get to practise so they did well to get him off OK.
I wonder how the British CSAR is doing these days, as this operation should be done by 28th Squadron from RAF Benson... but I don't see air refueling probe on theirs HC3s
USAF rescue.
One online news report puts the rendezvous point as being 320 miles off the Irish Coast. I don't know if this is outside the range of the S-61N or not. Given the initial location of the ship (approx 600 miles out) when the mayday call was first made, the HH-60G probably looked like the best option at the time and it certainly gave some flexibility with its air-to-air refuelling capability. The 2.5 hours over the ship could partially be explained by work being done on the casualty to prepare him for the winching and trip back to hospital.
In any case, well done to all involved. This mission will no doubt go down in the history of the unit involved as one of their greatest rescues.
500 Fan.
In any case, well done to all involved. This mission will no doubt go down in the history of the unit involved as one of their greatest rescues.
500 Fan.
Sas:
To answer your earlier question,
From my days on Nimrods, (former life before I was a "god" 
-see the other thread), yes it is standard practice for Nimrods and P3's to shut down two.
To answer your earlier question,
aren't they and the P-3 Orion's known to shut down two in order to extend their range at times?
-see the other thread), yes it is standard practice for Nimrods and P3's to shut down two.
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Shy T
At the risk of a small move away from thread, the (American) version I heard involved a fighter jock flagging a minor concern about (single) engine temperature to military ATC being asked to give way to a B52 who had formally declared an emergency with one engine shut down.
The fighter pilot replied "Ah, yes, the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
At the risk of a small move away from thread, the (American) version I heard involved a fighter jock flagging a minor concern about (single) engine temperature to military ATC being asked to give way to a B52 who had formally declared an emergency with one engine shut down.
The fighter pilot replied "Ah, yes, the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
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In NZ we just launch an AS350 and get on with the job:
William John FUNNELL, M.B.E.
Citation On the evening of 24 April 1992 Mr Funnell, chief pilot of the Taupo-based New Zealand Rail rescue helicopter, a Squirrel, made a flight to uplift from the remote Campbell Island a man, Mr Mike Fraser, who had been attacked by a shark. Mr Funnell was accompanied by another pilot and a paramedic. The rescue operation successfully carried Mr Fraser to Invercargill Hospital, and he made a good recovery from his ordeal. The Squirrel touched down again at Taupo 25 hours after the request to make the trip. The flight over some 1200 kilometres of ocean was believed to be unprecedented anywhere in the world in terms of single-engine helicopter operations and was undertaken at considerable risk to those on board. Mr Funnell displayed bravery in undertaking this flight without which the shark attack victim would not have survived.
William John FUNNELL, M.B.E.
Citation On the evening of 24 April 1992 Mr Funnell, chief pilot of the Taupo-based New Zealand Rail rescue helicopter, a Squirrel, made a flight to uplift from the remote Campbell Island a man, Mr Mike Fraser, who had been attacked by a shark. Mr Funnell was accompanied by another pilot and a paramedic. The rescue operation successfully carried Mr Fraser to Invercargill Hospital, and he made a good recovery from his ordeal. The Squirrel touched down again at Taupo 25 hours after the request to make the trip. The flight over some 1200 kilometres of ocean was believed to be unprecedented anywhere in the world in terms of single-engine helicopter operations and was undertaken at considerable risk to those on board. Mr Funnell displayed bravery in undertaking this flight without which the shark attack victim would not have survived.
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2 per rev, just for qualification, and not to take away from the rescue, I calculate Invercargill (not the southern most point in NZ) 369 nautical miles from Campbell island.
a) I wonder if they had fuel at Campbell island
b) and why they only got an aircraft from the north island
Quite a few 350's in the South Island last I checked, some good pilots in InverVegas too (did my 206 training there, of all places)
Some of those crazy cats were landing on icebergs nearby recently (<25 mile ofshore) - should make them certifiable to do a trip to Campbell Island
a) I wonder if they had fuel at Campbell island
b) and why they only got an aircraft from the north island
Quite a few 350's in the South Island last I checked, some good pilots in InverVegas too (did my 206 training there, of all places)
Some of those crazy cats were landing on icebergs nearby recently (<25 mile ofshore) - should make them certifiable to do a trip to Campbell Island
Last edited by birrddog; 12th Dec 2008 at 04:57. Reason: nautical miles, kilometers, 'nuff said
Torque - thanks chap, I had to come back - all the penguins were full Surprisingly, there are far more servicewomen down there nowadays who are properly attractive rather than just 'Falklands-pretty'.
Sasless, I think that given the initial distance (circa 600nm) when the distress call was first made it clearly made sense to send the unit with the extreme range capability due to AAR. But, given the lesser readiness state of the USAF unit plus the number of assets used, the mission took much longer to launch then the ARCCK might have considered. Thus by the time the rescuers were actually on scene, the ship's position was in fact in range of the Sea King.
We can hover in-flight refuel (HIFR) from a suitable RN vessel to get further than 250nm but if there are no grey-funnel liners in the vicinity it's not a player.
500fan - I don't know what the USAF crew's medical capabilities are (ours are Paramedic qualified) so it might have been casualty prep but they are more likely to have gone for a scoop and run option. I don't know how bad the conditions were on scene - if it was lumpy and windy then even an experienced crew might have had difficulty with the winching - it depends on the conditions and the size of the vessel.
Surprisingly, there are far more servicewomen down there nowadays who are properly attractive rather than just 'Falklands-pretty'.Sasless, I think that given the initial distance (circa 600nm) when the distress call was first made it clearly made sense to send the unit with the extreme range capability due to AAR. But, given the lesser readiness state of the USAF unit plus the number of assets used, the mission took much longer to launch then the ARCCK might have considered. Thus by the time the rescuers were actually on scene, the ship's position was in fact in range of the Sea King.
We can hover in-flight refuel (HIFR) from a suitable RN vessel to get further than 250nm but if there are no grey-funnel liners in the vicinity it's not a player.
500fan - I don't know what the USAF crew's medical capabilities are (ours are Paramedic qualified) so it might have been casualty prep but they are more likely to have gone for a scoop and run option. I don't know how bad the conditions were on scene - if it was lumpy and windy then even an experienced crew might have had difficulty with the winching - it depends on the conditions and the size of the vessel.
Crab,
I would imagine the USAF guys would have had two PJ's on each helicopter and their medical training is well beyond that of the average Paramedic. I am also sure they would have put a PJ or two on the ship to package the victim and perform any necessary emergency care to properly prepare him for the transfer to the aircraft and subsequent flight ashore.
Our PJ's are very capable folks.
An overview of the training these Men get....women are not eligible for this job (yet).
The 'Pipeline' (post initial recruit training)
* Pararescue Preparatory Course
2 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX
This two-week course provides physical training under the oversight of sports physiologists and swimming trainers to familiarize and teach the trainees the required skills to succeed in the indoctrination course to follow.
* The PARARESCUE/Combat Control Indoctrination Course
10 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX
The mission of the I-Course is to recruit, train, and select future PARARESCUEMEN and Combat Controllers. At this school you will participate in extensive physical conditioning with lots of swimming, running, weight training and calisthenics. This course helps prepare you for the rigors of training and the demands of these lifestyles. Other training accomplished at this course includes physiological training, dive physics, metric manipulations, medical terminology, dive terminology, history of PJ's and CCT, and leadership laboratories. Graduation of this course is "your ticket to ride" the pipeline and begin learning those special skills that make PJ's highly regarded special operators.
* US Army Airborne School
3 weeks, Fort Benning, GA
Here you learn the basic parachuting skills required to infiltrate an objective area by static line airdrop. This course includes ground operations week, tower week, and jump week where you make 5 actual parachute jumps. Personnel who complete this training are awarded the basic parachutist rating and are allowed to wear the coveted parachutists wings.
* USAF Combat Diver Course
6 weeks, Panama, FL
Here you become a combat diver and learn to use SCUBA to infiltrate areas surrounded by water undetected. This course provides training to depths of 130 ft, stressing development of maximum underwater mobility under various operating conditions.
* US Navy Underwater Egress Training
1 day, Pensacola NAS, FL
This course teaches how to safely escape from an aircraft that has ditched in the water. Instruction includes principles, procedures, and techniques necessary to get out of a sinking aircraft. Training requires personnel to actually experience water entry in a training device and perform underwater egress.
* US Air Force Basic Survival School
2 ½ weeks, Fairchild AFB, WA
This course teaches basic survival techniques for remote areas - using minimal equipment. This includes instruction of principles, procedures, equipment, and techniques which enable individuals to survive, regardless of climatic conditions or unfriendly environments, and return home.
* US Army Military Freefall Parachutist School
5 weeks, Fort Bragg, NC and Yuma Proving Grounds, AZ
This course instructs freefall parachuting (HALO) using the high performance ram air canopy. The course provides wind tunnel training, in-air instruction focusing on student stability, aerial maneuvers, air sense, and parachute opening procedures. Each student receives a minimum of 30 freefall jumps including 2 day and 2 night jumps with oxygen equipment and field gear.
* Paramedic Course
22 weeks, Kirtland AFB, NM
This course teaches how to manage trauma patients prior to evacuation and provide emergency medical treatment. The course consists of two phases. Phase I is 15 weeks of Emergency Medical Technician Basic (EMT-B) training. Phase II consists of 17 weeks of instruction in minor field surgery, pharmacology, combat trauma management, advanced airway management, and military evacuation procedures are taught. Upon graduation, an EMT-Paramedic certification is awarded through the National Registry.
* PARARESCUE Recovery Specialist Course
24 weeks, Kirtland AFB, NM
Qualifies airmen as PARARESCUE recovery specialists for assignment to any PARARESCUE unit worldwide. Training includes EMT-Paramedic certification, field, mountaineering, combat tactics, advanced parachuting, and helicopter insertion/extraction qualifications. At the completion of this course, each graduate is awarded the maroon beret.
I would imagine the USAF guys would have had two PJ's on each helicopter and their medical training is well beyond that of the average Paramedic. I am also sure they would have put a PJ or two on the ship to package the victim and perform any necessary emergency care to properly prepare him for the transfer to the aircraft and subsequent flight ashore.
Our PJ's are very capable folks.
An overview of the training these Men get....women are not eligible for this job (yet).
The 'Pipeline' (post initial recruit training)
* Pararescue Preparatory Course
2 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX
This two-week course provides physical training under the oversight of sports physiologists and swimming trainers to familiarize and teach the trainees the required skills to succeed in the indoctrination course to follow.
* The PARARESCUE/Combat Control Indoctrination Course
10 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX
The mission of the I-Course is to recruit, train, and select future PARARESCUEMEN and Combat Controllers. At this school you will participate in extensive physical conditioning with lots of swimming, running, weight training and calisthenics. This course helps prepare you for the rigors of training and the demands of these lifestyles. Other training accomplished at this course includes physiological training, dive physics, metric manipulations, medical terminology, dive terminology, history of PJ's and CCT, and leadership laboratories. Graduation of this course is "your ticket to ride" the pipeline and begin learning those special skills that make PJ's highly regarded special operators.
* US Army Airborne School
3 weeks, Fort Benning, GA
Here you learn the basic parachuting skills required to infiltrate an objective area by static line airdrop. This course includes ground operations week, tower week, and jump week where you make 5 actual parachute jumps. Personnel who complete this training are awarded the basic parachutist rating and are allowed to wear the coveted parachutists wings.
* USAF Combat Diver Course
6 weeks, Panama, FL
Here you become a combat diver and learn to use SCUBA to infiltrate areas surrounded by water undetected. This course provides training to depths of 130 ft, stressing development of maximum underwater mobility under various operating conditions.
* US Navy Underwater Egress Training
1 day, Pensacola NAS, FL
This course teaches how to safely escape from an aircraft that has ditched in the water. Instruction includes principles, procedures, and techniques necessary to get out of a sinking aircraft. Training requires personnel to actually experience water entry in a training device and perform underwater egress.
* US Air Force Basic Survival School
2 ½ weeks, Fairchild AFB, WA
This course teaches basic survival techniques for remote areas - using minimal equipment. This includes instruction of principles, procedures, equipment, and techniques which enable individuals to survive, regardless of climatic conditions or unfriendly environments, and return home.
* US Army Military Freefall Parachutist School
5 weeks, Fort Bragg, NC and Yuma Proving Grounds, AZ
This course instructs freefall parachuting (HALO) using the high performance ram air canopy. The course provides wind tunnel training, in-air instruction focusing on student stability, aerial maneuvers, air sense, and parachute opening procedures. Each student receives a minimum of 30 freefall jumps including 2 day and 2 night jumps with oxygen equipment and field gear.
* Paramedic Course
22 weeks, Kirtland AFB, NM
This course teaches how to manage trauma patients prior to evacuation and provide emergency medical treatment. The course consists of two phases. Phase I is 15 weeks of Emergency Medical Technician Basic (EMT-B) training. Phase II consists of 17 weeks of instruction in minor field surgery, pharmacology, combat trauma management, advanced airway management, and military evacuation procedures are taught. Upon graduation, an EMT-Paramedic certification is awarded through the National Registry.
* PARARESCUE Recovery Specialist Course
24 weeks, Kirtland AFB, NM
Qualifies airmen as PARARESCUE recovery specialists for assignment to any PARARESCUE unit worldwide. Training includes EMT-Paramedic certification, field, mountaineering, combat tactics, advanced parachuting, and helicopter insertion/extraction qualifications. At the completion of this course, each graduate is awarded the maroon beret.
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I remember many years ago a similar rescue carried out (passengers from a cargo ship if I remember correctly) by two ch53's that temporarily located to shannon for the job. I cant remember how many flying hours they notched up but do recall a news report saying they were utilising one or two back up systems on their eventualy touchdown back at shannon after a very successful rescue. It has to be twenty years or more ago now.
Sasless - so they are very fit paramedics then - they sound similarly trained to the SARtechs the Canadians have. Still, 2 1/2 hours is a very long time to prep a patient
Well Crab....being Yanks and all...perhaps they had to read the directions on the labels....and as we know those can be very long and written in very fine print.
I have sat at hospitals that long than that while my med crew packaged a patient for transport to another facility so who knows what they had to do to prepare the patient.
Physically moving him from a stateroom to the pickup point would take a bit of time itself.
It would be informative to read an account of the evolution by someone that was involved.....whoops...hang on...that would not work for you would it Crab.
I have sat at hospitals that long than that while my med crew packaged a patient for transport to another facility so who knows what they had to do to prepare the patient.
Physically moving him from a stateroom to the pickup point would take a bit of time itself.
It would be informative to read an account of the evolution by someone that was involved.....whoops...hang on...that would not work for you would it Crab.
Sasless - the whole point of sending a helicopter miles out to sea to rescue a casualty is that you intend to get them to hospital as quickly as possible because their situation is worsening.
The worst case would be a stretcher lift with either multiple fractures/head injury who may need a lot of stabilising and packaging or a bariatric (very fat) casualty who would take some manoeuvring in the confines of a ship.
Either way we, the RN and the CG usually have a lot less than an hour on scene to get the casualty on board and manage it every time - I guess it's just what you are trained for that enables you to get the job done quickly.
Yes I would be interested in a factual account of what happened - I just wouldn't base every crew's likely capabilities or skills on that specific report, that's all
The worst case would be a stretcher lift with either multiple fractures/head injury who may need a lot of stabilising and packaging or a bariatric (very fat) casualty who would take some manoeuvring in the confines of a ship.
Either way we, the RN and the CG usually have a lot less than an hour on scene to get the casualty on board and manage it every time - I guess it's just what you are trained for that enables you to get the job done quickly.
Yes I would be interested in a factual account of what happened - I just wouldn't base every crew's likely capabilities or skills on that specific report, that's all
Burmese seaman Koko Kline was injured when he plunged 40ft (12m) into a hold of the vessel, off the west coast of Ireland, the RAF said.
He is being treated for cranial and spinal injuries at a Limerick hospital.
He is being treated for cranial and spinal injuries at a Limerick hospital.
So it would seem the victim would need some very careful preparation as he was thought/known to have cranial and spinal injuries....which would mandate a stretcher transfer....which just might explain the amount of time spent getting him ready to go.
Plainly not a scoop and scoot situation.
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It is my understanding the helio was refueled inflight from containers carried onboard.Enough fuel was carried for the return trip. Could be wrong though. If anyone knows the full story feel free to correct me.
Seems to be a normal day in the life of a H-60 pilot 
Monday, December 15, 2008 / United States Coast Guard
A San Diego-based Coast Guard MH-60J Jayhawk helicopter crew performed a medical evacuation of a 42-year-old man from the motor vessel Marie Rikmers, 650 miles off the coast of San Diego, at 3:55 a.m. today.
The command center at Sector San Diego received notification of a man in need of immediate medical attention. Due to the location of the vessel, aCoast Guard C-130 from Air Station Sacramento, Calif., provided aerial coverage for the helicopter.
The helicopter was dispatched to the location of the vessel where the crew hoistedthe man and transferred him to the nearby USS AbrahamLincoln.
The patient isreceivingmedical attention on board the Lincoln and is listed in stable condition. A HH-65C Dolphin from Coast Guard Air Station San Francisco will conduct the patient transfer from the Lincoln to EMS atMonterey, Calif. EMS will then transfer the patient to County HospitalMontereyPeninsula.
The C-130 will continue to provide coverage during the mission.
A San Diego-based Coast Guard MH-60J Jayhawk helicopter crew performed a medical evacuation of a 42-year-old man from the motor vessel Marie Rikmers, 650 miles off the coast of San Diego, at 3:55 a.m. today.
The command center at Sector San Diego received notification of a man in need of immediate medical attention. Due to the location of the vessel, aCoast Guard C-130 from Air Station Sacramento, Calif., provided aerial coverage for the helicopter.
The helicopter was dispatched to the location of the vessel where the crew hoistedthe man and transferred him to the nearby USS AbrahamLincoln.
The patient isreceivingmedical attention on board the Lincoln and is listed in stable condition. A HH-65C Dolphin from Coast Guard Air Station San Francisco will conduct the patient transfer from the Lincoln to EMS atMonterey, Calif. EMS will then transfer the patient to County HospitalMontereyPeninsula.
The C-130 will continue to provide coverage during the mission.
A photo of the USS Abe Lincoln
