Central Counties Brown Trouser Moment!!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: North of Soton
Coconutty,
I do have a 135 ticket but have not used it for a few years, in a normal track and balance run you wouldn't have to disconnect any rods, they work as turnbuckles, you turn the rod and it moves on its threads to extend or retract thereby altering the pitch of the blade.
B.u.d.g.i.e
I quite agree that the crew would not find it funny, it must have been very worrying for them, especially as they had an incident the week before.
However to imply that the engineers concerned would find it funny is quite frankly insulting! Engineers take their profession very seriously, I would hazard a guess that you don't know many to make a statement like that.
I do have a 135 ticket but have not used it for a few years, in a normal track and balance run you wouldn't have to disconnect any rods, they work as turnbuckles, you turn the rod and it moves on its threads to extend or retract thereby altering the pitch of the blade.
B.u.d.g.i.e
I quite agree that the crew would not find it funny, it must have been very worrying for them, especially as they had an incident the week before.
However to imply that the engineers concerned would find it funny is quite frankly insulting! Engineers take their profession very seriously, I would hazard a guess that you don't know many to make a statement like that.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: U.K
The only time you would need to disconnect the pitch links during a Track and Balance was if you were zero-ing the blades to start from scratch, in this instance the scissor link would need to be disconnected to allow removal of the lower pitch link bolt.
From the information that I have this did not happen with this aircraft!
Coconutty:
IMHO, it would depend. IF it were missing then yes, I think it would have been noticed on the Check A. I am not really sure if/how you could incorrectly assemble it?
B.U.D.G.I.E:
I would agree with Quichemech, the implication of your post with regard to the attitude of engineers is indeed FAR below the belt, and frankly uncalled for.
From the information that I have this did not happen with this aircraft!
Coconutty:
IMHO, it would depend. IF it were missing then yes, I think it would have been noticed on the Check A. I am not really sure if/how you could incorrectly assemble it?
B.U.D.G.I.E:
I would agree with Quichemech, the implication of your post with regard to the attitude of engineers is indeed FAR below the belt, and frankly uncalled for.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 243
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From: uk
It was not a direct dig at the engineers more a retorical comment in answer to the pervious post and has been edited accordingly. We will just have to see if wombat was right in the new year. But I am sure you would all agree that things like that need to be checked and double checked before taking it off the ground.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Unless you were changing a blade or a worn PCL rod end there are very few reasons to remove or adjust the PCL's on a 135.
The rod ends are keyed to remain 90 degrees to each other.
Yes on 2 of the links you have to remove the swashplate drive links to remove the lower PCL bolts.
Luckily there are 2. Loss of one would not make a lot of difference. They can also be installed backwards!
Sounds as though the issue is not with the aircraft.
There has been nothing come out from ECD recently in the way of Safety Notices although no doubt there will along with the other gems like - please take off using both engines, please leave master on until engine stops to avoid incinerating engine, please understand how to use manual FADEC control, please understand TRAINING MODE, do not arm floats above 80 knots, don't fiddle with jettisonable door levers, be careful when dealing with flight controls having LH threads, don't fiddle with the FIRE (fuel valve) switches and guards, don't take off with the cyclic centring lock engaged (although by now you shouldn't be able to), etc etc.
I am sure that the poor guys at ECD really wonder about what customers do to their aircraft. Sometimes they even have trouble understanding what their own people do to them as well!
The rod ends are keyed to remain 90 degrees to each other.
Yes on 2 of the links you have to remove the swashplate drive links to remove the lower PCL bolts.
Luckily there are 2. Loss of one would not make a lot of difference. They can also be installed backwards!
Sounds as though the issue is not with the aircraft.
There has been nothing come out from ECD recently in the way of Safety Notices although no doubt there will along with the other gems like - please take off using both engines, please leave master on until engine stops to avoid incinerating engine, please understand how to use manual FADEC control, please understand TRAINING MODE, do not arm floats above 80 knots, don't fiddle with jettisonable door levers, be careful when dealing with flight controls having LH threads, don't fiddle with the FIRE (fuel valve) switches and guards, don't take off with the cyclic centring lock engaged (although by now you shouldn't be able to), etc etc.
I am sure that the poor guys at ECD really wonder about what customers do to their aircraft. Sometimes they even have trouble understanding what their own people do to them as well!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: U.K
Purplepitot,
Your post intrigues me. How do you figure that Quichemech has no idea what he is talking about? And perhaps you could expand as to which part of what has been said is incorrect? Perhaps a little rusty on 135 knowledge (self confessed!) but other than being an engineer????? (maybe that's your objection?)
Also, what information do you have to know that WOMBAT45 is "right on the button"? Perhaps you could share that with everyone or maybe even apply for a job with the AAIB!!!!
Your post intrigues me. How do you figure that Quichemech has no idea what he is talking about? And perhaps you could expand as to which part of what has been said is incorrect? Perhaps a little rusty on 135 knowledge (self confessed!) but other than being an engineer????? (maybe that's your objection?)
Also, what information do you have to know that WOMBAT45 is "right on the button"? Perhaps you could share that with everyone or maybe even apply for a job with the AAIB!!!!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: North of Soton
20 minuter,
I await what the AAIB have to say in due course when it is published for those of us not involved, no doubt they will be able to make a reasoned judgment on what actually occurred. You obviously have more information on what actually happened than I do, I've only read what has been posted on here.
WhySAS,
Thanks, yes I'm very rusty on the machine, must be 3 plus years since I've worked on one.
I await what the AAIB have to say in due course when it is published for those of us not involved, no doubt they will be able to make a reasoned judgment on what actually occurred. You obviously have more information on what actually happened than I do, I've only read what has been posted on here.
WhySAS,
Thanks, yes I'm very rusty on the machine, must be 3 plus years since I've worked on one.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: UK
Luckily there are 2. Loss of one would not make a lot of difference. They can also be installed backwards!
This doesn't mean that single link detachment wouldn't be noticed in the cockpit.......in the Central Counties case, unusual vibration. Some helicopters only have one link, the EC135 has two. I would say that this was for a reason. Although the one remaining attached link would keep things together for a time..... factor in vibration, existing wear in the components and control input forces, and who knows what could happen??
For all you pilots who are now paying extra attention to the swashplate links on your Daily Inspections....the links are fitted the correct way round if the lettering is on the outward face of the link
The AAIB report will be an interesting one. If Wombats comments and the word on the street are 'on the button', then all the subsequent flight tests and the positioning flight from ECUK, as well as any operational flights at Central Counties were carried out with something 'amiss'.
Last edited by nodrama; 21st December 2008 at 11:34.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: UK
Tomorow is just another day
How long would the AAIB investigation into an incident like this take, before some factual information is published ?
Presumably the maintenance company will also be conducting, or have conducted, their own investigation and will be letting their customer know their findings "soon"
Presumably the maintenance company will also be conducting, or have conducted, their own investigation and will be letting their customer know their findings "soon"
