GOM Trio of Losses Air Log / PHI / ERA??
Join Date: Sep 2008
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SASless has the wisdom to remember that the aircraft works for you, and you are the boss. That wonderful pile of aluminum and petroleum that we are strapped to needs our brains to fly it, and any red line is fair game when you might crash.
Bob Hoover was dead on - fly the aircraft until the sticks are no longer connected. Protecting an engine from over torque while hitting the water is simply bad head work! In fact, bad headwork has harmed more humans than all the red lines broken by all the pilots who ever flew.
Bob Hoover was dead on - fly the aircraft until the sticks are no longer connected. Protecting an engine from over torque while hitting the water is simply bad head work! In fact, bad headwork has harmed more humans than all the red lines broken by all the pilots who ever flew.
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Malabo. FAR /Aims are written by whom? I sometimes wonder. The theory is fine and the wind will be going horizontal at the surface but as the ground effect over water is reduced so will the height the wind goes horizontal. Then Sir Issac tells you that you have inertia regardless of where the wind is so can you overcome it?.
Listen to Nigel and SAS. We all tend to get a bit complacent (do we all apply the 10 miles recommended clearance from TS?) but nature will creep up and get you if you are not wary.
Nigel and SAS I would like to use your posts in my classes, if I may, so the students realise that it is not just my opinion that TS and helicopters do not mix well.
Yuall fly safe.
Listen to Nigel and SAS. We all tend to get a bit complacent (do we all apply the 10 miles recommended clearance from TS?) but nature will creep up and get you if you are not wary.
Nigel and SAS I would like to use your posts in my classes, if I may, so the students realise that it is not just my opinion that TS and helicopters do not mix well.
Yuall fly safe.
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Pofman
By all means use any comments I have written if it will help your students. That S62 incident I described happened after I had been flying helicopters for 13 years & about 5500 hours, so you don't have to be brand new to make mistakes. After 46 years flying I've lost count of how many mistakes I've made without denting a helicopter; I think I even invented a few mistakes! Obviously I've been very lucky but as time passes, you should recognize you've made a mistake & take corrective action quicker than when you are new. The trick is to teach your students to accept the fact they will make stuff ups but learn to recognize & correct them. That way you stay alive & can retire when old!
By all means use any comments I have written if it will help your students. That S62 incident I described happened after I had been flying helicopters for 13 years & about 5500 hours, so you don't have to be brand new to make mistakes. After 46 years flying I've lost count of how many mistakes I've made without denting a helicopter; I think I even invented a few mistakes! Obviously I've been very lucky but as time passes, you should recognize you've made a mistake & take corrective action quicker than when you are new. The trick is to teach your students to accept the fact they will make stuff ups but learn to recognize & correct them. That way you stay alive & can retire when old!
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Was There
I know both the pilots and spoke to them after the incident. THEY activated the floats due to the uncommanded decent and their proximity to the aqua. Making fairly far reaching speculations on an aircraft and crew is a bit irresponsible.
Bayou06
Bayou06
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I 've been told the ERA EC135 made an emergency landing during an onshore postioning flight from Houma, LA, with luckily only minor injuries The expression used was 'lost power to the main rotor'. There were apparently some human factors issues.
bayou06
i) Did the crew give you any idea of the sink rate or the altitude they stabalized at? If the FDR data has been examined as suggested I'm suprised such information is not being qouted, rather than flowery statements like 'they never stopped flying the aircraft'.
ii) Are your friends both flying again?
iii) Did they say if the rumour that they did not have ready access to weather data at their home base true?
I completely agree that stating conclusions based on speculative information (or what you hoped happened) is not right, though sadly not uncommon, including within some of the less cultured companies.
bayou06
i) Did the crew give you any idea of the sink rate or the altitude they stabalized at? If the FDR data has been examined as suggested I'm suprised such information is not being qouted, rather than flowery statements like 'they never stopped flying the aircraft'.
ii) Are your friends both flying again?
iii) Did they say if the rumour that they did not have ready access to weather data at their home base true?
I completely agree that stating conclusions based on speculative information (or what you hoped happened) is not right, though sadly not uncommon, including within some of the less cultured companies.
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Zalt,
In response to your ?s;
i) Did the crew give you any idea of the sink rate or the altitude they stabalized at? If the FDR data has been examined as suggested I'm suprised such information is not being qouted, rather than flowery statements like 'they never stopped flying the aircraft'. The FDR, CVR, and DECUs were all reviewed regarding the aircraft's flight profile and the crew's response to the situation. The company reviewed the data and interviewed the crew and were satisfied with the crew's acitons. The data has not been shared with the rest of the company as of yet.
Now, on the "letter" people have been discussing (said flowery statements) , that letter was from the customer to their employees who we support. It was NOT an official response from Air Log, just to set the record straight. Yes, the customer was a little flowery, but hey, they're oil men, not pilots or engineers.
ii) Are your friends both flying again? Yes, both pilots started their regular hitch after the review process. They both were in surprisingly good spirts considering the ordeal and having undergone fairly heavy scrutiny. My hat is off to both of them.
iii) Did they say if the rumour that they did not have ready access to weather data at their home base true? Hmmm, I'm not sure if I heard this one. There was the whole stink about the sofas in the pilot's room being removed as a "safety issue" and "limiting access to the computers (which was absolute CRAP!). If you want to read all the BS on that mess, log on to JH.
As far as weather data, I can say this. We have a dedicated weather computer with all the high speed radar, IR, satilitte, SIGMETs, TAF, ect and supporting programs. We also have other computers that have similar access to those tools via the internet. No one wants for access to weather tools.
Now, when we talk about offshore reporting stations, that capability across the GOM for all the operators is limited. I think we are down to seven stations now due to hurricanes Katrina, Rita, Gustav & Ike. Any way, thats the best I can address the "weather data" rumor.
But the bottom line is that the crew managed to respond admirably to a very dire situaiton.
In response to your ?s;
i) Did the crew give you any idea of the sink rate or the altitude they stabalized at? If the FDR data has been examined as suggested I'm suprised such information is not being qouted, rather than flowery statements like 'they never stopped flying the aircraft'. The FDR, CVR, and DECUs were all reviewed regarding the aircraft's flight profile and the crew's response to the situation. The company reviewed the data and interviewed the crew and were satisfied with the crew's acitons. The data has not been shared with the rest of the company as of yet.
Now, on the "letter" people have been discussing (said flowery statements) , that letter was from the customer to their employees who we support. It was NOT an official response from Air Log, just to set the record straight. Yes, the customer was a little flowery, but hey, they're oil men, not pilots or engineers.
ii) Are your friends both flying again? Yes, both pilots started their regular hitch after the review process. They both were in surprisingly good spirts considering the ordeal and having undergone fairly heavy scrutiny. My hat is off to both of them.
iii) Did they say if the rumour that they did not have ready access to weather data at their home base true? Hmmm, I'm not sure if I heard this one. There was the whole stink about the sofas in the pilot's room being removed as a "safety issue" and "limiting access to the computers (which was absolute CRAP!). If you want to read all the BS on that mess, log on to JH.
As far as weather data, I can say this. We have a dedicated weather computer with all the high speed radar, IR, satilitte, SIGMETs, TAF, ect and supporting programs. We also have other computers that have similar access to those tools via the internet. No one wants for access to weather tools.
Now, when we talk about offshore reporting stations, that capability across the GOM for all the operators is limited. I think we are down to seven stations now due to hurricanes Katrina, Rita, Gustav & Ike. Any way, thats the best I can address the "weather data" rumor.
But the bottom line is that the crew managed to respond admirably to a very dire situaiton.
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Ec135 near Houma
FYI,
No injuries and a dented tail bumper were the extent of damages to the a/c. Taking the most conservative response to a unexpected and unexplained load bang resulted in landing the a/c asap.
No injuries and a dented tail bumper were the extent of damages to the a/c. Taking the most conservative response to a unexpected and unexplained load bang resulted in landing the a/c asap.
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Zalt,
Not sure on their load. I've flown the job a few times and the load was typically around 2400 pounds or so. You usually arrived with 45 min of fuel reserve at the rig (which has fuel). But this is just a stab on my part.
Bayou06
Not sure on their load. I've flown the job a few times and the load was typically around 2400 pounds or so. You usually arrived with 45 min of fuel reserve at the rig (which has fuel). But this is just a stab on my part.
Bayou06
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Guys / Girls
Thanks for the information. Keeping it coming!
The PHI aircraft was apparently an A++ and badly damaged while tied-down offshore.
Thanks for the information. Keeping it coming!
The PHI aircraft was apparently an A++ and badly damaged while tied-down offshore.
Looking at those photos, I see pax immersion suits might have been useful! 
At least we would know why they are called "Poopy Suits".
Insider reports suggest the photo was actually one taken of the sofa in the Big Ship Pilot's Lounge at the Air Log Galliano Heliport.
Insider reports suggest the photo was actually one taken of the sofa in the Big Ship Pilot's Lounge at the Air Log Galliano Heliport.
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Liars at AirLogistics
I was in fact a passenger, with a window seat, and I can tell you that the aircraft did in fact land on the water. The engines were redlined a few times to get us out of the water. If the pilots had told the truth about what happened, they would have to assume responsibility for damages, and therefore be liable.
This incident has really shaken my faith in the industry to do the right thing, once again it comes to who can hide what and save how much money?
MTP
This incident has really shaken my faith in the industry to do the right thing, once again it comes to who can hide what and save how much money?
MTP