Breeze-Eastern 20200 External Hoist (Bell 412)
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Breeze-Eastern 20200 External Hoist (Bell 412)
Does anybody fly or have any knowledge about the Bell 412 with this hoist assembly? On reading the Bell412POH FMS it clearly says "Hoisting of human cargo is prohibited". On the Breeze-Eastern website it is advertised as a rescue hoist so I'm a little confused as I see it is being used regularly as a rescue hoist on Bell 412's.
Cheers
Cheers
You might find that this is related to the requirements for carriage of Human External Cargo Class D (HEC D) as specified in Parts 29 and 133.
These requirements do not apply to rescue or rescue hoists.
Jim
These requirements do not apply to rescue or rescue hoists.
Jim
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Hi Jim, there is no reference to FAR's 29 and 133 and this is a European operation. It is a Flight Manual Supplement in the 412 POH for a hoist sold as, and used as, a rescue hoist. Then the first sentance says not to be used for human cargo. Still confused. I'm sure you are correct but I still need more info.
TS
TS
OK, if we relate it to European regulations, the hoist would be OK for SAR (in any form) but would have difficulties in meeting the requirements for CAT specified in the HHO Appendix. More so now that an ACJ has been provided to ensure that hoists meet the amended requirement for HEC Class D (or have a method of establishing equivalent safety). As you know, SAR was never regulated under JAR-OPS 3 and is likely to remain outside the EASA regulations.
Simply put; hoists that are used for Commercial Air Transport require a higher standard of certification than those provide for Aerial Work or Search and Rescue. Probably the only State where there might be additional requirements for SAR is Italy, where ENAC took a more conservative view of the necessity for the additional requirements provided when AC29-2C was amended for HEC some years ago.
Jim
Simply put; hoists that are used for Commercial Air Transport require a higher standard of certification than those provide for Aerial Work or Search and Rescue. Probably the only State where there might be additional requirements for SAR is Italy, where ENAC took a more conservative view of the necessity for the additional requirements provided when AC29-2C was amended for HEC some years ago.
Jim
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Jim
Where is it stated that does not apply to rescue work, I note in an emergency you can deviate from the rules if you notify FAA within 10 days, but surely winch rescue training and waiting for a callout to go winch someone from there predicament is not the same intent as in 'an emergency'. To me all operators not using class D equipment (eg. the 429 hoist) for human loads are in breach of Rule Part 133??
Dan
Where is it stated that does not apply to rescue work, I note in an emergency you can deviate from the rules if you notify FAA within 10 days, but surely winch rescue training and waiting for a callout to go winch someone from there predicament is not the same intent as in 'an emergency'. To me all operators not using class D equipment (eg. the 429 hoist) for human loads are in breach of Rule Part 133??
Dan
Pilot 13A,
I am not an expert with respect to Part 133 but my understanding of it and Part 29 is the following:
It depends upon the Class of operations being performed - information provided in figure AC 29.865B-1 indicates that:
RLC A = an attached load held above the landing gear
RLC B = a jettisonable load lifted free of the land or water (not sure what would constitute jettisonable in this context)
RLC C = a jettisonable load that remains in contact with the land or water (towing)
RLC D = a load, other than the above, approved by the Authority
Not exactly a beacon of light is it?
Distinctions are applied by most Authorities that I am aware of (some - like the UK CAA apply HEC Class D to training missions). As far as I am aware, Aerial Work (carrying the accepted persons) and SAR are not required to apply the HEC Class D performance standard.
Unless you know different!!
Jim
I am not an expert with respect to Part 133 but my understanding of it and Part 29 is the following:
It depends upon the Class of operations being performed - information provided in figure AC 29.865B-1 indicates that:
"1. A person(s), being carried or transported for compensation outside the rotorcraft can only be carried as a Class D RLC.
2. A person who is not being carried or transported for compensation, is knowledgeable of the risks involved, and at some point is required to be outside of the rotorcraft in order to fulfill the mission. These persons are considered as RLC Class A, B, or C HEC as appropriate to the operation."
133.1 appears to provide an exclusion in cases of other than "A person(s), being carried or transported for compensation outside the rotorcraft" - this clause states:2. A person who is not being carried or transported for compensation, is knowledgeable of the risks involved, and at some point is required to be outside of the rotorcraft in order to fulfill the mission. These persons are considered as RLC Class A, B, or C HEC as appropriate to the operation."
"(d) For the purpose of this part, a person other than a crewmember or a person who is essential and directly connected with the external-load operation may be carried only in approved Class D rotorcraft-load combinations."
Where the whole area becomes quite complex is in the definitions of RLC A, B and C; if I could summarise these, they are:RLC A = an attached load held above the landing gear
RLC B = a jettisonable load lifted free of the land or water (not sure what would constitute jettisonable in this context)
RLC C = a jettisonable load that remains in contact with the land or water (towing)
RLC D = a load, other than the above, approved by the Authority
Not exactly a beacon of light is it?
Distinctions are applied by most Authorities that I am aware of (some - like the UK CAA apply HEC Class D to training missions). As far as I am aware, Aerial Work (carrying the accepted persons) and SAR are not required to apply the HEC Class D performance standard.
Unless you know different!!
Jim
Let's start with a definition of "Human Cargo".....are live human beings considered "cargo" under the definition? I would think the usage of words like person, people, human,passenger, crewmember.... would make it much more clear than as stated.
On reading the Bell412POH FMS it clearly says "Hoisting of human cargo is prohibited".
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I suspect that there is confusion here between a hoist and a cargo hook!
In the past I did regular work-boat crew changes by hoist around the Beryl Alpha while at the same time there was a rescue system available that fitted onto the cargo hook and could lift about twenty survivors in one go. This was shortly after the Piper Alpha accident so it may not still be extant.
The key words appear to be 'jettisonable; as in cargo hook.
In the past I did regular work-boat crew changes by hoist around the Beryl Alpha while at the same time there was a rescue system available that fitted onto the cargo hook and could lift about twenty survivors in one go. This was shortly after the Piper Alpha accident so it may not still be extant.
The key words appear to be 'jettisonable; as in cargo hook.
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Jim, SAS et al
My company does mostly IHT a little EMS/SAR. We thought a B430 would be ideal, until I recently noted in Bells 430 hoist FM supplement, General section; "hoist kit is designed for class B external loads" and in the Limitations Section; "Human cargo operations are prohibited". I don't think we can pursue a 430 knowing this. Is it true that NYPD are exempt as a 'public use operator' so can still hoist people with theirs?
My company does mostly IHT a little EMS/SAR. We thought a B430 would be ideal, until I recently noted in Bells 430 hoist FM supplement, General section; "hoist kit is designed for class B external loads" and in the Limitations Section; "Human cargo operations are prohibited". I don't think we can pursue a 430 knowing this. Is it true that NYPD are exempt as a 'public use operator' so can still hoist people with theirs?
