ITV News G-PIXX
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From: Uk
ITV News G-PIXX
ITV News last night. G-PIXX Single engine helicopter operating over middle of edinborough and then over water(no floats or lifjackets on. With presenter giving interview to camera.AOC Job ? Private or Aerial work ? and what about Land Clear. Aircraft also appeared to have GPS or TV Monitor outside the centre console, allsorts of grief when you try and put a GPS outside on a B206.
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From: PPRuNe
There is also some more discussion here: Are single-engines safe over cities?
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From: KOLM and KBVS
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From: UK
Malcontent: Mixing your rules up. No land clear requirement for helicopters. Only FW (unless over EGR160 London).
Operating ANY helicopter over a congested area is subject to being able to land without endangering people and property on the surface. And subject to 1000ft above nearest highest obstacle within 600m.
Suggest you sit in the corner with the Rules of the Air for a while.
Operating ANY helicopter over a congested area is subject to being able to land without endangering people and property on the surface. And subject to 1000ft above nearest highest obstacle within 600m.
Suggest you sit in the corner with the Rules of the Air for a while.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: UKdom
Points for Discussion;
You're in the hover filming over a built up area (such as Edinburgh) and have an area of parkland in mind as your area to alight in the event of an engine failure;
I recall R44 Handbook states in Autorotation ~ 0.7nm Glide distance per 1000ft?
1) Your engine stops and you place your normally noisy helicopter into Autorotation to the spot you have selected - there maybe people walking dogs etc - has the situation been worsened by the reduction in aircraft noise to alert them you 'dropping' their way or would they all hear the donkey stop, look up, and clear the area for you? How about the blind person walking his dog or the chap with his Ipod on full blast?
2) You follow the above with a successful EOL and everyone is unharmed. Have you endangered life / property on the basis that if it had gone wrong an impact may send debris flying about the place or result in latter stages being uncontrollable - where might the aircraft end up? Or is it job well done, pilot saves the day?
The recent Bettystown incident (although different circumstances) highlights a number of issues regarding landing site selection and congested areas.
You're in the hover filming over a built up area (such as Edinburgh) and have an area of parkland in mind as your area to alight in the event of an engine failure;
I recall R44 Handbook states in Autorotation ~ 0.7nm Glide distance per 1000ft?
1) Your engine stops and you place your normally noisy helicopter into Autorotation to the spot you have selected - there maybe people walking dogs etc - has the situation been worsened by the reduction in aircraft noise to alert them you 'dropping' their way or would they all hear the donkey stop, look up, and clear the area for you? How about the blind person walking his dog or the chap with his Ipod on full blast?
2) You follow the above with a successful EOL and everyone is unharmed. Have you endangered life / property on the basis that if it had gone wrong an impact may send debris flying about the place or result in latter stages being uncontrollable - where might the aircraft end up? Or is it job well done, pilot saves the day?
The recent Bettystown incident (although different circumstances) highlights a number of issues regarding landing site selection and congested areas.
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From: uk
I suggest bedtime reading of the ANO which gives the state of play regarding Aerial work. This is such a grey area for so many operators, that I feel many should make sure they are abiding by the rules correctly. The CAA seem to be able to pick and choose who they prosecute using the Aerial Work rules.
I personally don't think that an auto to a public park could be considered safe. Would love to hear any viewpoints to the contrary.
I personally don't think that an auto to a public park could be considered safe. Would love to hear any viewpoints to the contrary.
Tightgit
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From: The artist formerly known as john du'pruyting
Are you sure you want a firm ruling on that.
Can you be sure that the nice empty field in the countryside that you saw at 1500 ft doesn't contain obstacles of the bovine, equine, ovine or humine!!!
variety as you get to the no further options point.
Can you be sure that the nice empty field in the countryside that you saw at 1500 ft doesn't contain obstacles of the bovine, equine, ovine or humine!!!
variety as you get to the no further options point.
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Jim Ball
Effectively landing clear and not endangering is one and the same thing. Bear in mind that CAA now include golf courses as congested areas !!
Or are you saying I could fly one of my 500's over a park in the middle of London ( forget the particular rules here) eg hop from say Battersea park to Clapham common to Tooting Beck Common all in auto range of each other because I could probably land it without endangering anyone on the ground ?
Effectively landing clear and not endangering is one and the same thing. Bear in mind that CAA now include golf courses as congested areas !!
Or are you saying I could fly one of my 500's over a park in the middle of London ( forget the particular rules here) eg hop from say Battersea park to Clapham common to Tooting Beck Common all in auto range of each other because I could probably land it without endangering anyone on the ground ?
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From: uk
Hughes500, I tend to agree but if 'rules is rules', should they really be choosing? All for one and one for all? Rules that is!
I feel sorry for those operators who jump through all of the hoops at great cost, only to be undercut by those who continue to flaunt the rules.
I feel sorry for those operators who jump through all of the hoops at great cost, only to be undercut by those who continue to flaunt the rules.
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: UK
Hughes500:
Like you say, you forget the rules. And the answer is no you can't do it. Rules of the Air & EGR160 will explain.
As luck would have it, a Hughes 500 was doing aerial filming over Canary Wharf today. Legally. Safely. And with not a hint of a "flaunt", Helimutt.
Or are you saying I could fly one of my 500's over a park in the middle of London ( forget the particular rules here) eg hop from say Battersea park to Clapham common to Tooting Beck Common all in auto range of each other because I could probably land it without endangering anyone on the ground ?
As luck would have it, a Hughes 500 was doing aerial filming over Canary Wharf today. Legally. Safely. And with not a hint of a "flaunt", Helimutt.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: uk
On Sept 7th I was lucky ( or unlucky ) enough to be visiting London for the day. It was the start of the Tour of Britain cycle race and 2 x 44's were covering the event above the London eye area. They were frequently in the hover at approx 1000 ft ( my estimation of course ) from the ground and later from a Thames Cruise boat i looked all around and could not see a clear place to land in the event the engine packs up.
As a 44 PPL I would be interested to know if there is a 'get out' for these guys if the worst should happen ?
Maybe someone familiar with that stretch of the thames knows of a place these guys could glide to ??
As a 44 PPL I would be interested to know if there is a 'get out' for these guys if the worst should happen ?
Maybe someone familiar with that stretch of the thames knows of a place these guys could glide to ??
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From: UK
4ftHover: An apt name. Your estimation of the altitudes is way off. More like 1800 & 2400. I know because I was onboard one of them at 2400ft as the links re-bro. Both operating on H4 - both operating to the rules which require any helicopter suffering a power unit failure to glide into the Thames.
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