R44 Raven II vs Older 206
If you only do a 100 hours per year, I would be inclined to cross hire it to off-set costs.
Better yet, set up a small syndicate and share the costs. If your set on having it parked at your house, and available when ever it suits you, then you can probably afford it regardless
Better yet, set up a small syndicate and share the costs. If your set on having it parked at your house, and available when ever it suits you, then you can probably afford it regardless
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: airport
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But if your private use Robbie only does 100 hours a year you are still forced to rebuild a half-lifed ship after 12 years? I bet many private owners get less than 100 a year too.
True, Big Mike, but folks who can afford stuff like helicopters often get that way by avoiding bad choices and they would prefer to avoid an asset that has to be rebuilt before it is worn out!
Er... well don't buy one then. The R44 times and rebuild schedules are not a secret. Buy a Jet-ranger, or for that matter a tidy 500C.
They cost what they cost. You just have to decide how much your willing to spend.
They cost what they cost. You just have to decide how much your willing to spend.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see my "experimental" comment brushed some of you up the wrong way. Please accept my apologies. And no disrespect to Frank either. I too used to defend the R44 and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.
I have personally owned 2 R44s in succession. Both were Clippers and capable machines. However, when I moved on to JRs, Colibris and Squirrels, I found these to be in a different class of machine altogether (reasons in my previous post). Sure they burn a bigger hole in your pocket, but if they were out of rotorspin's budget, he wouldn't be considering JRs against R44s anyway - he'd be limited to choosing between (say) Raven-1s and Raven-2s only. That's the whole point behind his post which started this thread. And that's why I suggested him to get a trusted friend who is experienced in budgeting JRs to assess the real cost of ownership so there're no nasty surprises.
I also have the safety aspect in mind. I believe the JR is still historically the safest aircraft mankind has ever seen. However, if I can only afford an R44, that is probably what I have to fly.
I have personally owned 2 R44s in succession. Both were Clippers and capable machines. However, when I moved on to JRs, Colibris and Squirrels, I found these to be in a different class of machine altogether (reasons in my previous post). Sure they burn a bigger hole in your pocket, but if they were out of rotorspin's budget, he wouldn't be considering JRs against R44s anyway - he'd be limited to choosing between (say) Raven-1s and Raven-2s only. That's the whole point behind his post which started this thread. And that's why I suggested him to get a trusted friend who is experienced in budgeting JRs to assess the real cost of ownership so there're no nasty surprises.
I also have the safety aspect in mind. I believe the JR is still historically the safest aircraft mankind has ever seen. However, if I can only afford an R44, that is probably what I have to fly.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all your advice so far - I was keeping quiet as the feedback has been hugely important to me! As some of you had asked where I went I thought I had better respond!
I have received lots of PM's and made some good friends (not all sellers!!) from this thread and my decision is still out at the moment although thinking of swallowing the cost and going for a JR...
Oh - and its not an adhoc enquiry trying to stir up a debate - I will be buying within the next month and my current thought is an 80's+ BIII but feel free to tell me different!
I will post pic of the heli (whichever I end up buying) !
Thanks all - reeeeeeally appreciate your inputs so far and please keep it coming!
I have received lots of PM's and made some good friends (not all sellers!!) from this thread and my decision is still out at the moment although thinking of swallowing the cost and going for a JR...
Oh - and its not an adhoc enquiry trying to stir up a debate - I will be buying within the next month and my current thought is an 80's+ BIII but feel free to tell me different!
I will post pic of the heli (whichever I end up buying) !
Thanks all - reeeeeeally appreciate your inputs so far and please keep it coming!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Don't know if this helps, but the way I take people through this debate is to ask them what they want to use it for. If they want a two person serious touring machine and/or a four person sightseeing/fun trip machine then the R44 will do nicely. If they need more than this then they need to think about bigger machines.
All the stuff about cyclic, reliability etc. is really just individual preference/prejudice. Of course the Jet Ranger is 'better' and as a result it costs more to buy and run ! But if the R44 does the job you need it to do then it will do it for (much) less. You don't really have to look much further than Self Fly Hire rates. Around £400ph in the UK for the 44 and about £500 for the JR. Knock £75 or so off these for profit and you can see what 'on average' they're going to cost you.
Oh and if you're thinking about buying, remember the three Fs.
All the stuff about cyclic, reliability etc. is really just individual preference/prejudice. Of course the Jet Ranger is 'better' and as a result it costs more to buy and run ! But if the R44 does the job you need it to do then it will do it for (much) less. You don't really have to look much further than Self Fly Hire rates. Around £400ph in the UK for the 44 and about £500 for the JR. Knock £75 or so off these for profit and you can see what 'on average' they're going to cost you.
Oh and if you're thinking about buying, remember the three Fs.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Center of the Universe
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
does the job you need it to do
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When looking at comparative running costs please bear in mind that Jet A1 will have a 50p/litre tax on it from this November when used for "Private Pleasure Flying" and from November 2009 the tax will be applied whatever the purpose of the flight, with a very few exceptions.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: england
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 Fs
Puntosaurus
I think your reference to the "3 Fs" is a bit esoteric for some readers.
the whole statement goes
"If it Flys, Makes Love, or Floats.............. then rent it."
hope this is of use to the younger members of this forum.
Big Ls
oh by the way:
es⋅o⋅ter⋅ic
–adjective
1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2. belonging to the select few.
3. private; secret; confidential.
4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
I think your reference to the "3 Fs" is a bit esoteric for some readers.
the whole statement goes
"If it Flys, Makes Love, or Floats.............. then rent it."
hope this is of use to the younger members of this forum.
Big Ls
oh by the way:
es⋅o⋅ter⋅ic
–adjective
1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2. belonging to the select few.
3. private; secret; confidential.
4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
