Proficiency Checks
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2006
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From: In a glass house
Proficiency Checks
Two questions:
1. Do you ever undergo / carry out a proficiency check in a single pilot helicopter without dual controls fitted?
2. Any idea where it says you should have dual controls fitted whilst carrying out a proficiency check?
Thoughts and/or answers will be appreciated.
SayIt
1. Do you ever undergo / carry out a proficiency check in a single pilot helicopter without dual controls fitted?
2. Any idea where it says you should have dual controls fitted whilst carrying out a proficiency check?
Thoughts and/or answers will be appreciated.
SayIt
Tightgit
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 806
Likes: 7
From: The artist formerly known as john du'pruyting
Although this does desrve a sarcastic reply....
1. No
2.
So if half way through the check you fail, you are not qualified to operate as PiC
1. No
2.
Pilots to remain at controls
50 (1) The commander of a flying machine or glider registered in the United Kingdom shall
cause one pilot to remain at the controls at all times while it is in flight.
(2) If the flying machine or glider is required by or under this Order to carry two pilots, the
commander shall cause both pilots to remain at the controls during take-off and
landing.
(3) If the flying machine or glider carries two or more pilots (whether or not it is required
to do so) and is engaged on a flight for the purpose of the public transport of
passengers, the commander shall remain at the controls during take-off and landing.
(4) Each pilot at the controls shall be secured in his seat by either a safety belt with or
without one diagonal shoulder strap, or a safety harness except that during take-off
and landing a safety harness shall be worn if it is required by article 19 and Schedule
4 to be provided.
(5) An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power for the
purpose of making a flight unless there is a person at the controls entitled in
accordance with article 26 of this Order to act as pilot-in-command of the helicopter.
50 (1) The commander of a flying machine or glider registered in the United Kingdom shall
cause one pilot to remain at the controls at all times while it is in flight.
(2) If the flying machine or glider is required by or under this Order to carry two pilots, the
commander shall cause both pilots to remain at the controls during take-off and
landing.
(3) If the flying machine or glider carries two or more pilots (whether or not it is required
to do so) and is engaged on a flight for the purpose of the public transport of
passengers, the commander shall remain at the controls during take-off and landing.
(4) Each pilot at the controls shall be secured in his seat by either a safety belt with or
without one diagonal shoulder strap, or a safety harness except that during take-off
and landing a safety harness shall be worn if it is required by article 19 and Schedule
4 to be provided.
(5) An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power for the
purpose of making a flight unless there is a person at the controls entitled in
accordance with article 26 of this Order to act as pilot-in-command of the helicopter.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 118
As an examiner it is hard enough to watch a ppl do an engine off landing without touching the controls let alone not having any.
Interesting poll here, how many ppl's would do an eol without examiner having a set of controls ? Maybe better, how many examiners would do an eol without ?
Interesting poll here, how many ppl's would do an eol without examiner having a set of controls ? Maybe better, how many examiners would do an eol without ?
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 230
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From: Out of Africa
Do I have "Stupid" tattooed on my forehead?
SiiS,
Question 1 - not until the thread title becomes reality!
Question 2 - CGIaF
k - not prepared to go there under any circumstances! Don't care what the regs say!
Actually once did an AOC "Proving Flight" with UK CAA Flight Ops Inspector (Actually a good friend) who sat in 300C Pax seat with me without duals. he commented " I haven't flown in a single piston since our Navy days"
I hadn't the heart to tell him that apart from my check ride with Denis K, neither had I!
Trog
1. Do you ever undergo / carry out a proficiency check in a single pilot helicopter without dual controls fitted?
2. Any idea where it says you should have dual controls fitted whilst carrying out a proficiency check?
2. Any idea where it says you should have dual controls fitted whilst carrying out a proficiency check?
Question 2 - CGIaF
k - not prepared to go there under any circumstances! Don't care what the regs say!Actually once did an AOC "Proving Flight" with UK CAA Flight Ops Inspector (Actually a good friend) who sat in 300C Pax seat with me without duals. he commented " I haven't flown in a single piston since our Navy days"
I hadn't the heart to tell him that apart from my check ride with Denis K, neither had I!
Trog
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Asia
To dual or not to dual!
Interesting question...predictable answers. I take it we are talking about a VFR Proficiency check of an experienced pilot.
I have looked at JAR OPS 3 and I can’t find any reference to there being a requirement for dual controls to be fitted. Can’t find anything in the Flight Examiner’s Manual either. Kalif help me out here please!
More than one operator I have flown with has occasionally (and sometimes more than occasionally) conducted proficiency checks without duals fitted, and with the examinee as PIC.
Is it specifically written, other than on Troglodita’s forehead, that duals are required? I can’t believe that if they are essential it isn’t a well documented requirement.
Cheers!
I have looked at JAR OPS 3 and I can’t find any reference to there being a requirement for dual controls to be fitted. Can’t find anything in the Flight Examiner’s Manual either. Kalif help me out here please!
More than one operator I have flown with has occasionally (and sometimes more than occasionally) conducted proficiency checks without duals fitted, and with the examinee as PIC.
Is it specifically written, other than on Troglodita’s forehead, that duals are required? I can’t believe that if they are essential it isn’t a well documented requirement.
Cheers!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: UK
And so on...
JAR-OPS 3.210
"(d) An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power [for the purpose of flight] without a qualified pilot at the controls."
If the pilot is undergoing a "test" then he's probably not qualified.
FCL 2 has plenty of references.
Also, Stds Doc 28 (1.3.9)
"During the conduct of a type rating in a helicopter, the examiner must occupy a pilot's seat and be legally able to act as a member of the crew of the helicopter."
A bit difficult without controls me thinks.
There's more references I'm sure,
"(d) An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power [for the purpose of flight] without a qualified pilot at the controls."
If the pilot is undergoing a "test" then he's probably not qualified.
FCL 2 has plenty of references.
Also, Stds Doc 28 (1.3.9)
"During the conduct of a type rating in a helicopter, the examiner must occupy a pilot's seat and be legally able to act as a member of the crew of the helicopter."
A bit difficult without controls me thinks.
There's more references I'm sure,
