Logbook hrs adv/disadv of JAR/FAA
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Logbook hrs adv/disadv of JAR/FAA
Dear RH,
Not having an FAA licence I'm not familiar with all the in/outs of logbook entries, but it seems to me they have an advantage over JAR licence holders. Am I correct in saying an FAA holder can enter all flights they do in a non type rated aircraft (under a certain weight, not sure precisely what it is but pretty much includes most helicopters).
How can this be fair to a JAR person who cannot log these hours if they do not have type rating ?
Why cannot we log these hours under safety pilot (under co-pilot but add in remarks column) ?
As a freelancer it becomes frustrating when I have nearly over 60 hours logged as 'safety pilot' and not able to enter into my logbook.
What are people thoughts and do RH's enter these hours in their logbooks anyway ?
Thanks again for your time and thoughts
SST
Not having an FAA licence I'm not familiar with all the in/outs of logbook entries, but it seems to me they have an advantage over JAR licence holders. Am I correct in saying an FAA holder can enter all flights they do in a non type rated aircraft (under a certain weight, not sure precisely what it is but pretty much includes most helicopters).
How can this be fair to a JAR person who cannot log these hours if they do not have type rating ?
Why cannot we log these hours under safety pilot (under co-pilot but add in remarks column) ?
As a freelancer it becomes frustrating when I have nearly over 60 hours logged as 'safety pilot' and not able to enter into my logbook.
What are people thoughts and do RH's enter these hours in their logbooks anyway ?
Thanks again for your time and thoughts
SST
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Belgium
Age: 61
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You wouldn't be able to count the hours under the FAA system either. You can only log SIC time in a helicopter typed for multi-crew ops, you can log PIC when you're the pilot flying, or as an instructor. Safety pilot is nothing. So there's is no difference between the two systems.
By the way even if you would be flying straight and level in a type and log PIC, but you didn't receive training on the type employers and insurance companies wouldn't accept this. People seem to forget that PIC means pilot in command, the guy who solves the problem when it goes wrong, now you wouldn't be able to handle an emergency, when you don't have training on type would you?
By the way even if you would be flying straight and level in a type and log PIC, but you didn't receive training on the type employers and insurance companies wouldn't accept this. People seem to forget that PIC means pilot in command, the guy who solves the problem when it goes wrong, now you wouldn't be able to handle an emergency, when you don't have training on type would you?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thks for your comments.
My point tends towards the 2 crew aspect. If an aircraft is operated multi-crew (as per ops man) or the aircraft is on a two crew charter, would the FAA non- rated pilot not be able to log this as co-pilot ? (I say this as a pilot with an FAA license told me he is able to !)
Whereas a non-rated JAR pilot is unable to ?
Thks
My point tends towards the 2 crew aspect. If an aircraft is operated multi-crew (as per ops man) or the aircraft is on a two crew charter, would the FAA non- rated pilot not be able to log this as co-pilot ? (I say this as a pilot with an FAA license told me he is able to !)
Whereas a non-rated JAR pilot is unable to ?
Thks
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAR 61.51 e)
A private pilot may log as PIC time only for that flight time during which that person-
i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft the pilot is rated or has priveledges
ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
iii) .....acting as the PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under type certifiaction.... (this is not the same as where an operator chooses to have two pilots in an aircraft which only requires one)
A private pilot may log as PIC time only for that flight time during which that person-
i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft the pilot is rated or has priveledges
ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
iii) .....acting as the PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under type certifiaction.... (this is not the same as where an operator chooses to have two pilots in an aircraft which only requires one)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can under FAA log PIC time if you are flying with an instructor (most all FAA RW pilots have a FI).
I know that people also log s-61 time as SIC time without typeratin doing logging work.
They can not log PIC time until they have the type rating though.
I am not sure if this is right or wrong, just know that it is being practiced.
So I have a question then:
If you work as a logging co pilot in Alaska on the S-61, and you log 1000hrs SIC, would those hours count in the JAR world?
Would you then be an "experienced" multi engine multi crew pilot?
After all, you log the hours under the regulations of the country you are flying in?
I know that people also log s-61 time as SIC time without typeratin doing logging work.
They can not log PIC time until they have the type rating though.
I am not sure if this is right or wrong, just know that it is being practiced.
So I have a question then:
If you work as a logging co pilot in Alaska on the S-61, and you log 1000hrs SIC, would those hours count in the JAR world?
Would you then be an "experienced" multi engine multi crew pilot?
After all, you log the hours under the regulations of the country you are flying in?
MortenT,
In FAA land you don't need a type rating to be SIC, and if the aircraft requires 2 crew then it is SIC. S-61 Minimum crew = 2.
In FAA land you don't need a type rating to be SIC, and if the aircraft requires 2 crew then it is SIC. S-61 Minimum crew = 2.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, I finally found what I was looking for !
Sec. 61.55 - Second-in-command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person holds:
(1) At least a current private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and
(2) An instrument rating that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR.
SO, as understand it you do not have to have type rating to claim SIC hours in VFR. 'appropriate category and class rating' is not a type rating
Am I correct or stand to be corrected ?
To me this gives an FAA licence holder an advantage when it comes to logging hours...does it not ?
Cheers
SST
Sec. 61.55 - Second-in-command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person holds:
(1) At least a current private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and
(2) An instrument rating that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR.
SO, as understand it you do not have to have type rating to claim SIC hours in VFR. 'appropriate category and class rating' is not a type rating
Am I correct or stand to be corrected ?
To me this gives an FAA licence holder an advantage when it comes to logging hours...does it not ?
Cheers
SST
