PHI EMS Accident - Sam Houston National Forest, Texas June 8th
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Close call last night for another EMS crew during a flight that resulted in a bit of IIMC due weather. Hopefully, the crew and operator will share the information with the rest of the industry and do a "Lessons Learned" analysis with a view towards determining what caused the event and thus be able to look for ways to improve their situation.
I am very glad to hear all are safe and well this morning.
I am very glad to hear all are safe and well this morning.
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This has been dicussed earlier here. But it is worthwhile talking about again.
What would the ideal schedule be for a HEMS pilot(US)? I know, everyone has his or her favorite schedule ( 3 days/4 nights or 7 days/7 off/7 nights etc.).There is a lot of chatter going on nowadays in the NTSB and the FAA over fatigue in airline pilots. I wonder if it is time to draw somebody's attention to fatigue issues in our industry?
This has been discussed on other forums (notably JH).I am hoping this discussion will be more civilized and possibly more scientific and thought provoking.
Alt3.
What would the ideal schedule be for a HEMS pilot(US)? I know, everyone has his or her favorite schedule ( 3 days/4 nights or 7 days/7 off/7 nights etc.).There is a lot of chatter going on nowadays in the NTSB and the FAA over fatigue in airline pilots. I wonder if it is time to draw somebody's attention to fatigue issues in our industry?
This has been discussed on other forums (notably JH).I am hoping this discussion will be more civilized and possibly more scientific and thought provoking.
Alt3.
Devil 49 has posted about the scheduling problem in the past and seems to have done a bit of research into the matter as his views seem very well founded.
Compound the risks of night flying doing EMS and pilot fatique must be considered a contributing factor in many of the crashes.
I have found myself "waking up" on the way back in from a scene...and wondering if I had in fact gone to sleep or just drifted off mentally and thinking I had been sleeping. That usually was about night five of seven.
Compound the risks of night flying doing EMS and pilot fatique must be considered a contributing factor in many of the crashes.
I have found myself "waking up" on the way back in from a scene...and wondering if I had in fact gone to sleep or just drifted off mentally and thinking I had been sleeping. That usually was about night five of seven.
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SASless :
I hope Devil49 chimes in.The other aspect I forgot to add is:would it make a difference to have an extende period of rest if say one begins or ends a flight after midnight?
Alt3.
I hope Devil49 chimes in.The other aspect I forgot to add is:would it make a difference to have an extende period of rest if say one begins or ends a flight after midnight?
Alt3.
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From what I see too many pilots overestimate their wakefulness at times, and underestimate their need for sleep prior to reporting for a night shift.
I have to get @6 hours minimum sleep during the day prior to night shift and I have stay awake/alert all night in order to function comfortably when the bell goes off. If I go to sleep during a shift it takes a long time to wake up, and that is usually half way to wherever, so I don't do it. I figure if I'm at work I stay awake and at least do something to keep me brain engaged.
I have to get @6 hours minimum sleep during the day prior to night shift and I have stay awake/alert all night in order to function comfortably when the bell goes off. If I go to sleep during a shift it takes a long time to wake up, and that is usually half way to wherever, so I don't do it. I figure if I'm at work I stay awake and at least do something to keep me brain engaged.
A very close call near Duluth, MN.
A Life Link Bell 407 encountered IMC conditions the other night. Cloud base was about 1400 AGL and visibility was four to seven miles with rain showers. The aircraft was in an area of very few ground lights south of Duluth, MN.
The pilot engaged the autopilot but somehow the aircraft wound up in a very steep bank within fifty feet of the trees when the pilot was able to regain control as visual reference to the ground was re-gained.
It is believed company IIMC procedures were not followed as published.
Hopefully, a full review of the event will be done and lessons learned implemented. Anyone care to guess what chance that will be done?
My bet is it will be thrown completely into the pilot's lap and not one peep about the other links in the chain that led to this near disaster will be heard. Which will be just like it failed to happen in a previous crash of a Bell 412 that killed all four crew members a few years ago.
The pilot engaged the autopilot but somehow the aircraft wound up in a very steep bank within fifty feet of the trees when the pilot was able to regain control as visual reference to the ground was re-gained.
It is believed company IIMC procedures were not followed as published.
Hopefully, a full review of the event will be done and lessons learned implemented. Anyone care to guess what chance that will be done?
My bet is it will be thrown completely into the pilot's lap and not one peep about the other links in the chain that led to this near disaster will be heard. Which will be just like it failed to happen in a previous crash of a Bell 412 that killed all four crew members a few years ago.
Last edited by SASless; 2nd Jul 2008 at 03:18.
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I have to agree with Shawn. We're all creatures of habit, and we do what we're used to doing. I try to do things the same way all the time, and using the autopilot needs to be automatic. If you're not used to doing it, then it becomes a bigger deal than it should be to get it working.
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I have been operating a BK-117 in an air ambulance capacity in a coastal environment for 19 years. I have to say with the proliferation of awos and asos the current 'snapshot' of current weather is vastly improved over that of 19 years ago and taken together with the 2 stations in our area that offer TAFs a pretty good overall view can be gained. But, weather is neither static nor homogeneous and therein lies the problem. I have gone inadvertent IMC when the lowest ceiling forecast was 2,000 feet and have shot an ILS breaking out at 300 feet when the ceilings were forecast above 1200.
Our minimums here are 600/ 2 1/2 day and 1200 and 3 night and we still have 3-4 inadvertent IMC excursions a year total in our operation. The vast majority happen in level cruise flight and at night. Our normal flight is about 70 nm and a long flight is about twice that one way. Many of our flights are conducted over areas with little or no ground lights.
It is my experience that regardless of minimums, if operations are conducted at night, at least in our area, you will encounter inadvertent IMC. With that in mind I have done the following to reduce the probability of CFIT.
I hired only instrument experienced pilots. Two of us come from a corporate flight background operating a twin engine helicopter in 'heavy' IFR. Even so the vast majority of time it is quicker and more convenient to fly VFR in even the best equipped helicopter so all our pilots also had fixed wing time in aircraft like the Citation 500 and King Air. That is where they got the depth of their instrument time.
My pilots are required to maintain instrument competency and take an annual IPC. There is no limit on the use of our aircraft for instrument training. I prefer the pilots fly double the minimum number of approaches specified by the FAA and I prefer not more than 30 days between approaches. I also try to get each pilot some actual instrument time in our helicopter each year if possible at night. I do everything possible to make this happen when it is convenient to them.
Our aircraft is well equipped with a Garmin 530 and a 496 for weather download capability in flight as well as the usual complement of flight instruments. Current plates and charts are kept on board. We are not an IFR service but, short of an autopilot,we equip our aircraft as if we were.
Finally I back my pilots up. Ours is a pilot run system with the pilot being on the top of the pecking order. Input from each pilot is encouraged and solicited. By job description pilots are only allowed to be assigned "pilot related duties". To give my pilots incentive to train and not become complacent, I make sure they are well paid.
Our minimums here are 600/ 2 1/2 day and 1200 and 3 night and we still have 3-4 inadvertent IMC excursions a year total in our operation. The vast majority happen in level cruise flight and at night. Our normal flight is about 70 nm and a long flight is about twice that one way. Many of our flights are conducted over areas with little or no ground lights.
It is my experience that regardless of minimums, if operations are conducted at night, at least in our area, you will encounter inadvertent IMC. With that in mind I have done the following to reduce the probability of CFIT.
I hired only instrument experienced pilots. Two of us come from a corporate flight background operating a twin engine helicopter in 'heavy' IFR. Even so the vast majority of time it is quicker and more convenient to fly VFR in even the best equipped helicopter so all our pilots also had fixed wing time in aircraft like the Citation 500 and King Air. That is where they got the depth of their instrument time.
My pilots are required to maintain instrument competency and take an annual IPC. There is no limit on the use of our aircraft for instrument training. I prefer the pilots fly double the minimum number of approaches specified by the FAA and I prefer not more than 30 days between approaches. I also try to get each pilot some actual instrument time in our helicopter each year if possible at night. I do everything possible to make this happen when it is convenient to them.
Our aircraft is well equipped with a Garmin 530 and a 496 for weather download capability in flight as well as the usual complement of flight instruments. Current plates and charts are kept on board. We are not an IFR service but, short of an autopilot,we equip our aircraft as if we were.
Finally I back my pilots up. Ours is a pilot run system with the pilot being on the top of the pecking order. Input from each pilot is encouraged and solicited. By job description pilots are only allowed to be assigned "pilot related duties". To give my pilots incentive to train and not become complacent, I make sure they are well paid.
