Mi 2 heli: advice needed re: buying/running etc
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Mi 2 heli: advice needed re: buying/running etc
One of my students (JAA PPL holder, 60 hours) has been offered a Mi 2 helicopter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-2
... for about £20,000, in Sweden. He has been told it can be registered in Lithuania and fly it in Sweden.
So.. he asks me - "What do you think of that? Sounds like a good deal?"
I told him I've no idea about these helicopters, but a twin turbine heli for £20,000 sounds a bit cheap. What about component times/maintenance costs/parts costs and availability/reliability/insurance/Swedish regulations etc etc.
I'm at a loss to tell him any more, so.. does anyone have any information on buying/selling/maintaining an Mi 2 in Europe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-2
... for about £20,000, in Sweden. He has been told it can be registered in Lithuania and fly it in Sweden.
So.. he asks me - "What do you think of that? Sounds like a good deal?"
I told him I've no idea about these helicopters, but a twin turbine heli for £20,000 sounds a bit cheap. What about component times/maintenance costs/parts costs and availability/reliability/insurance/Swedish regulations etc etc.
I'm at a loss to tell him any more, so.. does anyone have any information on buying/selling/maintaining an Mi 2 in Europe?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Not!
There was a serious accident involving one of them estonian MI2's a few years ago. The authorities are not overwhelmed by all this and I beleive it will be a problem to fly an estonian Mi2 in Sweden, if not now then in the foreseable future.
Doesn't sound like a great deal to me!
Just my 2 bucks worth...
All the best from a much too cold Sweden.
/p
Doesn't sound like a great deal to me!
Just my 2 bucks worth...
All the best from a much too cold Sweden.
/p
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Probably cost that much to dig up all its history and have it inspected!!
If it was all legit its quite a neat machine!! although a 60 hr PPL?? Maybe not a good Idea.
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Ask your student if he is prepared to open his wallet further or even lose all his money - Being a twin and not a hugely common one at that could mean he is inheriting a very deep moneypit. If he needs to get his money out if it in the future he might have to spend a lot to get it back and if the regs regarding that type of aircraft suddenly change (and they can) then he is going to be up sh*t creek without a paddle.There was a guy here in NZ who brought a heap of Wessex machines to lift logs with, He can't give them away now because CAA didn't like the look of them, and although he picked them up at a bargain price he is still about 1 million out of pocket.
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not a hugely common one at that
windowseatplease - Surely the answer is "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is"?
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Originally Posted by mini
Something wrong if its being offered for 20K IMHO.
If your not a Russian helicopter design fan, and You want that helicopter for actual work it is rather a bad idea. As it is a Russian design, but produced entirely in Poland, operating one outside may be a problem, most of the parts are not produced for years. Maintenance may be a problem as there is limited number of mechanics that know that machine outside former eastern block. Plus there are problems with registration.
Although, if that student want that helicopter purely for joy rides, is quite passionate rotorhead, and is prepared to become pilot, crewchief, engineer and all- systems mechanic, than this is the easiest way to get his own helicopter.
For hobby - go for it. For work - avoid.
I agree with Fubar......the Mi-2 is a good basic helicopter and nice to fly but maintaining and certification will be the issue.
Plenty of spares available and PZL-Swidnik still manufacture it to order ,although no recent orders.
For $20,000 I would expect to get a fully airwoethy example with logs to prove it .
Plenty of spares available and PZL-Swidnik still manufacture it to order ,although no recent orders.
For $20,000 I would expect to get a fully airwoethy example with logs to prove it .
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I have flown a MI2 in Sweden. The A/C was registered in Lithuania. It was flown under "experimental" category if I don't remember wrong. We had an Instructor and mechanic from Bulgaria that helped us out. I think we calculated an operating cost of around €130/hour. Plenty of spares by the way. Gotta love the Russian manual...."If aircraft is owerweight we recomend a running takeoff". Its deffenetly built well and there are a few very nice design features. Feels a bit heavy on the controlls but flies nice. Quit a fun machine to buzz around in.
I have a few hundred hours on Mi-2 types with all kind of missions including full evaluation. I went to Swidnik (PZL) some times and i know a lot of details.
If you have any questions... gimme a PM.
But don't buy such a wreckage. £20,000 could only be a wreckage with stolen and false papers and ready for the dump. At the moment there are a lot of such offers on the market. Fast money with trash. Yes, you could get a foreign registration, plus a foreign licence, just a question of money.
But it's your life, hanging an a very complex helicopter. This is not a basic helicopter. It's a complex and interesting ship with two turbines fully automatic engine control, hydraulics, artificial control forces, full de-icing main and tail rotor plus engine, full of old electronics, ac and dc systems and a normal MTOW of 3700kg. The UH-1 is simple compared with a Mi-2. This ship needs any day the qualified hands of a good engineer, a lot of fluids, maintenance of the pressurized dampers and, and, and.
If you are ready to risk your life, feel free! The crash statistic of this type is really impressive. Especially after a lot of technical failures. It's heavy handed and the control margins are small. As example the allowed cross wind is only 10kt. Just constructed in the sixties!
Voodoo2 you are really experimental I think you missed a few points. Alone the fuel and oil consumption will need much more than your 130€/h. Count sure more than 300l/h fuel plus 3l engine oil/h. The 600l main tank is good for 90 minutes flight. I think you gave the 130€/h the bulgarians for working on the papers... That's the usual way on such special priced offers.
If you have any questions... gimme a PM.
But don't buy such a wreckage. £20,000 could only be a wreckage with stolen and false papers and ready for the dump. At the moment there are a lot of such offers on the market. Fast money with trash. Yes, you could get a foreign registration, plus a foreign licence, just a question of money.
But it's your life, hanging an a very complex helicopter. This is not a basic helicopter. It's a complex and interesting ship with two turbines fully automatic engine control, hydraulics, artificial control forces, full de-icing main and tail rotor plus engine, full of old electronics, ac and dc systems and a normal MTOW of 3700kg. The UH-1 is simple compared with a Mi-2. This ship needs any day the qualified hands of a good engineer, a lot of fluids, maintenance of the pressurized dampers and, and, and.
If you are ready to risk your life, feel free! The crash statistic of this type is really impressive. Especially after a lot of technical failures. It's heavy handed and the control margins are small. As example the allowed cross wind is only 10kt. Just constructed in the sixties!
I think we calculated an operating cost of around €130/hour.
Voodoo2 you are really experimental
I think you missed a few points. Alone the fuel and oil consumption will need much more than your 130€/h. Count sure more than 300l/h fuel plus 3l engine oil/h. The 600l main tank is good for 90 minutes flight. I think you gave the 130€/h the bulgarians for working on the papers... That's the usual way on such special priced offers.
Last edited by tecpilot; 19th May 2008 at 20:01.
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A guy in France is flying one which a couple of years ago came over to the UK to compete in the British Helicopter Championship. He is also an instructor and examiner on the type.
He has accress to engineers and spares so it can't be that big a problem to keep flying plus as heli1 says its a good and well proven helicopter with plenty of spares support available.
He has accress to engineers and spares so it can't be that big a problem to keep flying plus as heli1 says its a good and well proven helicopter with plenty of spares support available.
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The first question has to be - can you actually get it civil registered? Secondly, it is not a suitable machine for a low time pilot. Performance is limited, especially hover perf when loaded. The flight manual does not recommend hovering about 15 feet AGL, due to the consequences if one of the engines failed, etc.
Field of view is terrible, and the whole cabin is dark and oppressive...
Tail rotor authority is definitely limited, and the directional stability in forward flight is slim (what do you expect with no vertical stabilizers to speak of?).
There may have been a lot of them made, but that doesn't mean they were much good, especially if there are other options.
I flew one for 15 minutes a long time ago, and that was 10 minutes too long.
But that's just my view.
Field of view is terrible, and the whole cabin is dark and oppressive...
Tail rotor authority is definitely limited, and the directional stability in forward flight is slim (what do you expect with no vertical stabilizers to speak of?).
There may have been a lot of them made, but that doesn't mean they were much good, especially if there are other options.
I flew one for 15 minutes a long time ago, and that was 10 minutes too long.
But that's just my view.
