EC135 Cyclic Lock incident
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
OK, I'll ask: who uses it and, more to the point, why??? I used it once or twice in the early days, just to assist getting the cyclic in the right position for min MMI when shutting down.
Why would you want to leave the aircraft shutdown with it fitted? I see its purpose as being for leaving the aircraft with rotors running(for checking an overheated battery).
Why would you want to leave the aircraft shutdown with it fitted? I see its purpose as being for leaving the aircraft with rotors running(for checking an overheated battery).
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
I never used it during normal operation. I would, if i have to leave the H/C with rotors running ( overheated battery f. e. ).
And I used it as a help to position the cyclic in correct position with failed MMI, but i didnt lock it because its harder then to get the left leg out of the cockpit
skadi
And I used it as a help to position the cyclic in correct position with failed MMI, but i didnt lock it because its harder then to get the left leg out of the cockpit
skadi
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
Svenestron wrote:
Maybe you misunderstood my message. Of course I would use the lock when leaving the helicopter with blades turning at idlespeed, but I never used it with rotor stopped.
skadi
Blades are expensive, getting your left leg out of the cockpit is a hassle.. what to do, what to do..?
skadi
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: USA
Overdrive, Ahhh, clever
Abortion indeed. And completely unneccessary with the aircraft shut down. But this is a case of someone forgetting a checklist item. I'm not making a judgment here; I've accidentally skipped checklist items many times myself, but it's hard to think of a cure for that. I suppose Eurocopter could come up with something like a collective lock that will engage until the cyclic lock is removed. And maybe put the engines on it as well while they're at it, as there have been quite a few cases of EC135's taking off with one engine in idle. Or at the least put a cyclic lock warning light on the CAD or something. But come on; you have to be able to rely on the pilot for some tasks. Making the aircraft absolutely foolproof is like admitting that pilots are fools.
Abortion indeed. And completely unneccessary with the aircraft shut down. But this is a case of someone forgetting a checklist item. I'm not making a judgment here; I've accidentally skipped checklist items many times myself, but it's hard to think of a cure for that. I suppose Eurocopter could come up with something like a collective lock that will engage until the cyclic lock is removed. And maybe put the engines on it as well while they're at it, as there have been quite a few cases of EC135's taking off with one engine in idle. Or at the least put a cyclic lock warning light on the CAD or something. But come on; you have to be able to rely on the pilot for some tasks. Making the aircraft absolutely foolproof is like admitting that pilots are fools.
Last edited by Revolutionary; 20th May 2008 at 15:54.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
Old Skool,
Thanks for the pics, it would seem to me that the problem of incorrect fitment of the lock is a problem that has been recognised in the past, but the preventative cure, in your 'knurled nut', not passed onto subsequent aircraft!
As for when we use it, MGs getting the cyclic right position for the MMI is the only thing I've used it for so far.
However I can see its uses in more hostile environments where you may have to get out of the ac and not risk a full shut down, but I think for most of us 'now civis', those days are well back in the past.
Anyone from Germany Army or Irish Air Corps available to comment?
Thanks for the pics, it would seem to me that the problem of incorrect fitment of the lock is a problem that has been recognised in the past, but the preventative cure, in your 'knurled nut', not passed onto subsequent aircraft!
As for when we use it, MGs getting the cyclic right position for the MMI is the only thing I've used it for so far.
However I can see its uses in more hostile environments where you may have to get out of the ac and not risk a full shut down, but I think for most of us 'now civis', those days are well back in the past.
Anyone from Germany Army or Irish Air Corps available to comment?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 927
Likes: 12
From: Germany
Hi all,
just wondering about the incidents at all.
How did pilots involved jerk the birds in the air?
Didnīt they "feel" the birds in the air?
When appling Collective, you need to push pedal and move the stick cause helicopters are build to fly - not to stand on the ground.
Doing this smoothly you will certainly fell, that the cyclic is locked cause you canīt move it - which is necessary for a smooth vertical lift off in the hover.
Time enough to put down the collective again when human error has caught you forgetting the lock in the first place.
Greetings Flying Bull
just wondering about the incidents at all.
How did pilots involved jerk the birds in the air?
Didnīt they "feel" the birds in the air?
When appling Collective, you need to push pedal and move the stick cause helicopters are build to fly - not to stand on the ground.
Doing this smoothly you will certainly fell, that the cyclic is locked cause you canīt move it - which is necessary for a smooth vertical lift off in the hover.
Time enough to put down the collective again when human error has caught you forgetting the lock in the first place.
Greetings Flying Bull
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 506
Likes: 1
From: Europe
The most real pilots (hot, or?) knowing that leaving the ship with rotors running is absolutely not seldom or uncommon. Anyway what is written in RFM or CAA papers.
Congratulations to those pilots who haver never done it or which are not able to imagine this fact.
Check out this forum for the threads about this fact.
Alone yesterday i saw 4 "hot" (means with idling engines) crew changes during an rescue exercise.
"It`s impossible to develop an idiotproof system! Idiots are to resourceful!" Einstein, i believe.
Congratulations to those pilots who haver never done it or which are not able to imagine this fact.
Check out this forum for the threads about this fact.
Alone yesterday i saw 4 "hot" (means with idling engines) crew changes during an rescue exercise.
"It`s impossible to develop an idiotproof system! Idiots are to resourceful!" Einstein, i believe.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: A long way away
After taking one look at the thing , the SOP for our machines is that it should never be used fullstop . The risk of accidentally taking off with it locked outweighs the chance of it ever saving an aircraft from tipping over.
