What to bring while crossing water

[tinyjohnston]

Hey,

Will be flying from Dublin to Cardiff in a few weeks and just wondering

a) What survival equipment i need
b) What survival equipment i should bring.....

On life jackets, I have manual inflating sailing jackets, would they do?? Or is there a difference??

Thanks

Tiny

[eurocopter beans]

what type are you flying? that makes all the difference! i dont like crossing the pond without aircraft floats fitted. Bring armbands if its a robbie.

[Old Skool]

if you can get hold of the co2 bottle inflation jacket that would be a good starting point, a signal mirror, sea dye, an epirb, a whistle, all tethered to the vest if possible.
I knew some guys who carried small radios, sealed in a bag i think, then again i also flew with a guy who had some diving goggles and a mini breathing bottle, about the size of a coke can. It always made me smile to look over and see the divers googles swinging from the door.
plan to wear everything on your person somewhere, it is no use floating around inside the cabin, should you ditch it will be gone.

[tinyjohnston]

Thanks for that

Its a R44, no floats.....

Would the sailing jackets suffice with the little gas bottles?? or are there a specific type of Aviation jackets??

Thanks again

Tiny

[sss]

if you get a chance to have a go in a dunker before hand then its well worth the practise.

[timex]

Immersion suit for a start, its still pretty cold, you need a jacket that can be inflated quickly so a CO2 type would be best. These are minimum items.

[helicopter-redeye]

Use a high FL for the trip - more time if there is a problem.

Quick inflate aviation life jackets with whistles/ lights

Personal Locator Beacon

HI Portable Strobe

IM Suit if you can hire one locally.

A lot of people make that trip without suits and 99.999% are OK but if you did ditch you would need a very quick rescue as it would be deadly cold and without floats you would have a problem with sinking before the blades stop (or come off in a roll). Hence fly high and keep the alt channel on Comm 1 on 121.5 and be in voice contact Dublin/ London Info / Valley depending on day and location at all times.

Gud Tur!

[206 jock]

Are you coming over for the Heineken Cup final? Git....should have been Saracens there not your lot.

Personally, I fly over water with a PLB and a gas bottle lifejacket. Blobby suits are ridiculously cumbersome and rafts a good idea, but I just cannot see how you'll get it out of a sinking hull in time.

Floats? Good idea, but another thing to maintain for the 0.05% of time that you need them, and I gather they quite often don't work. Anyway, we all campaigned not to have them a few years back!

But ask 100 helo pilots what they fly over water with and you'll get 100 different answers!

[FFF]

The manual inflation sailing lifejacket is better than nothing - although the aviation approved ones are a bit more durable (and less likely to fail after a hard impact).

Immersion suit is a great idea - a standard recommendation is to wear them when the sea temp is below 15 degrees C.

You can get a personal EPIRB, brilliant bit of kit (and good to always have when flying). Have a look at them on google (make sure you get one that is waterproof). Marine suppliers are good for these (I assume that is where you got your lifejacket).

If you have one, take your marine band VHF handheld (a call on Channel 16 is always worth it).

If you are going to do this regularly, then do a dunker course - it really does make a difference should the worst happen.

FFF

[helimutt]

3 layers of cotton under garments, 1 waterproof rubber flying suit, a lifejacket (inflatable type), radio if waterproof or in a sealable pastic bag. Make sure you fly exactly the way you say you will on the flight plan. Tell someone you know to make sure you get where you're going at the time you say you will. Also take a small nose clip. A lot of deaths from immersion in cold water comes from the shock on entry, especially when inhaled etc.

Have a small liferaft in the back. Also fit floats! LOL
I personally wouldn't fly over water that far in an ill equipped R44, I have enough trouble doing it in an offshore equipped S76 but I have to feed my child somehow!

Hope you make it and have a good day out! Let us know what you do decide to do.


Oh yes, forgot, do a dunker course. You'll just love that!

[WylieCoyote]

If your single engine wear an immersion suit,it may be uncomfortable but so is dying of hypothermia which you will get in uk waters within about 30mins even in the summer if your lucky/unlucky,aviation approved life jacket and an EPIRB one of which should have some sort of strobe on it, my opinion is that a raft is only any good if you have floats(i.e enough time to drag the thing out!) and do a dunker course,Andark of Southampton are very good and not to pricey if you get a few of you on a course.They will teach you all you need to know from a ditching point of view. Also make sure your AI is in good nick as it's not nice when the weather was like it was today over the Irish sea, 6 to 7k with a glass like watersurface,no horizon, makes you feel like your vis is much less,akin to been IMC, make sure the forecast/actual is good and any doubts go another day.
Otherwise go for it and chalk up another milestone of experience.

[K48]

Use a yacht!

Nice weather for sailing.....

Seriously, in practical terms, over that distance I would say just put on an immersion suit and have a PLB/Epirb (water activated?). You have no chance without either if you go down without comms. Surviving cold shock and your location/situation being known are key. And I would be very careful about the wx and vis... losing your horizon half way across would be my biggest concern... stay in the air.... no AH no go....?
Nose clips... in practical terms thats not quite right, cold shock stops you breathing for a few moments, a life jacket floats you facing the waves and wind so you need a pull down visor for surviving long exposure.. you would need to be wearing your nose clip on impact for it to be of use underwater... so would you be putting it on during a ditching..? would it stay on?
Also.. another tidbit... 150N life jackets don't hold a fully clothed male adult's face clear of the wave action.. you need 175 or 200/250N... 150 will be tiring while you wait... a pulldown visor is the most important feature of a life jacket though as the waves land on your belly and shoot up into your mouth channelled by the jacket itself. You can drown in the jacket once exhausted.. but with a visor you can have a nap... and I like napping..

[HELOFAN]

The question is ....

What do the regs there say you have to have when flying over water?

HF

[floatsarmed]

Overwater Flights.

Most of the advice above is all good with regard to dunker, liferafts, lifejackets, floats, comms etc etc. However, unless you are really well prepared from an experience and equipment point of view then such a flight is quite a big thing. I fly over the water all day, every day and I do as much training as I can and carry ALL the above kit EVERY time. Now, I don't know you from a bar of soap mate, but if you are having to ask "what should I take on a fairly long overwater flight across the Irish Sea" then I submit that you and your aircraft are not ready for such a task. If it all goes belly up and you end up going for a swim then you are going to become a statisic. Do yourself a favour, catch a commercial flight and spend the money you saved on a nice meal and a couple of bottles of red!

[EESDL]

Will it be just you or are you bringing friends over..........in a single-engined, floatless, piston helicopter?

[SASless]

Perhaps one could save a lot of money and instead of buying all the vests and such....merely buy a bar of soap. I don't know of anyone who takes salt water baths.

[topendtorque]

Perhaps one could save a lot of money and instead of buying all the vests and such....merely buy a bar of soap. I don't know of anyone who takes salt water baths

Baited,
Some Weighted,
some corked, (floaters)

we'll see??

[Tail-take-off]

Do yourself a favour, catch a commercial flight and spend the money you saved on a nice meal and a couple of bottles of red!

Best bit of advice on this thread. The one essential bit of kit for me would be an aircraft with 2 engines (as well as most of the other stuff previously listed).

[[email protected]]

Tiny - manually inflated jackets are what you need - an automatic one may inflate whilst you are still in the aircraft preventing you from escaping the sinking fuselage.

Protection - first rule of survival - an immersion suit will save your life - the water temp is 11 degrees C at the moment and that is chuffing cold.

Location - second rule - a PLB/EPIRB

Water - 3rd rule you'll be in a lot of it but not for long so you shouldn't get too thirsty.

Food - 4th rule, eat before you fly - more energy to survive the cold.

Ring us at the SAR flight at Chivenor if you like to let us know when you are going since it will be either us or Waterford that comes to get you if you take an early bath.

[topendtorque]

if you take an early bath.

another sublimal hint??