VOR Ident. Do you bother?

[firebird_uk]

For sake of argument, let's say I've self fly hired a machine for the weekend and having jumped in I discover there's no gps, but there is a VOR.

Off we go and looking at my plan I tune my first VOR and the radial. Would you bother identing the beacon?

Being as I'm probably skulking around at about 1500-2500ft agl and that VOR propogation is line of sight, what are the chances are me picking up another VOR in Germany or wherever? Yes I could be unlucky with some freak skywaves but I'd have thought this would give eratic readings at best.

I can accept that at 33,000ft identing the beacon is a must, but at the altitudes we generally fly?

[TwinHueyMan]

I always do, it's good practice I find just to make sure of everything. In my few times using VORs as the sole navigational aid, I've found myself tuning the wrong VOR, the wrong radial, trying to use an OTS navaid, and having the nav system in the wrong mode... all discovered when I went to ident and did the normal "VOR double checks" (looking at a map, at the vor info block for the morse, then shooting a course from the VOR to where I know I am and confirming with an OBS twist direct to the vor). With the usually limited amount of fuel and nav equipment on the choppers I hire, flying somewhere other than where I'm planning would usually mean quite a big issue. Why skip something so quick and easy?

Mike

[spinwing]

Well of course you do ..... always check the ident to ensure you have the correct VOR .... if you have either the morse or voice ID then you have eliminated the possibility of having selected or been given the WRONG frequency for the navaid you wish to use .... this procedure is often called AIRMANSHIP.

[HVHmt]

Why wouldn't you? It only takes seconds, what else could you be doing?
it is the proper thing to do.

[Barndweller]

Certainly you ident it. You may have selected the wrong frequency or failed to change frequency from the previous VOR in use. More than once i have tried to ident a VOR only to realise that i have not flipped the "change" toggle properly and it's still on the previous frequency. Much better to know straight away than after five min of head scratching and following the wrong radial

As said by the earlier poster - Airmanship! If you don't take the time to carry out that simple task then what else are you skipping?

Flysafe

[Barndweller]

One other comment Firebird... I would suggest that even if you did have a GPS then it would be good airmanship to have the VOR set to an appropriate frequency as a back-up and cross check. This means that if the GPS fails then you don't have to mess about setting up the VOR. It also means that you stay familiar with how to use the VOR so that on the day you need to it doesn't take ten min of head-scratching by which time you're in controlled airspace or worse.

If there is kit in the aircraft - use it and know how to use it.

[firebird_uk]

OK, before I take even more of a pasting I'll explain why I asked in the first place. I have almost completed my CPL in an aircraft with no VOR. It has a gps that will emulate a VOR, but not the ident (in effect a town, VRP etc can 'be' a VOR).

This means that for my test I'll have to fly another helicopter (same type obviously) that has a VOR. I'm sure it'll fly the same as the one I've been using, but I obviously feel more at home in 'my' one.

My question was to gauge whether I could talk an examiner into using the simulated VOR on the basis that nobody bothers identing them anyway. Clearly I'll need to use the other machine.

[Prophead]

Remember you are identing to check the operation of the VOR not just that you have tuned it in correctly.

[cjam]

You are very inexperienced, the lesson to learn here is that more experienced people are telling you that these little things are a matter of airmanship. It's seemingly little things like this that will kill you. Don't try to find a way around challenges, hit them hard and try and perfect your flying.Doing that will build your confidence as well.

[ubique]

You should check the ident every time, for even if it is a frequently used station and a frequency that you know, you will occasionally find it indenting "TST" meaning that it is on test and not reliable.

[Willyboy]

Tune

Identify

Test

[Geoffersincornwall]

What about the hi-teccies

My Honeywell Epic FMS system will only display valid radio navaids. If the signal is absent or invalid then ..... no display (no needle, no CDI indications). Anything producing a valid ident will display the code being received in letter format on the pilot's displays thus enabling the servideability of the aid to be checked and to verify the correct frequency and code.

Now..... do I need to check the audio 'Morse' ident?

G

[helicopter-redeye]

I can't believe this conversation is even happening. A JAR CPL student is asking should he ident the navaid or not bother.

[malabo]

Like the Honeywell Epic, other FMS units do the same, even the real inexpensive ones. So if you are flying stone-age junk, you should tune and identify - sometimes the VOR will appear to function normally but won't give an ident because it is not meant to be used (calibration, etc), check your NOTAMS. And on a Flight Test always announce that you have "Tuned and Identified" - magic words the examiner wants to hear.

So on the modern stuff I don't bother to identify - the unit does all that work for me. For the cheaper stuff, hmm, can't recall ever flying a VOR in a helicopter, ever. You are low, remote, and there was always some other option, like GPS or following a shoreline.

ILS and DME works the same on the modern units - no need to identify. Once we got away from coffee grinder ADF's into digitally tuned pretty much the same there.

Probably heresy to all you helicopter IFR guys

[firebird_uk]

I can't believe this conversation is even happening. A JAR CPL student is asking should he ident the navaid or not bother.

Why? I've flown almost 180 hours of which only around 10 have been in an aircraft equiped with a VOR. Even then it was never used as part of the training as Nav was dead reckoning / trackcrawl.

I've learnt everything about Boeing 737s on my interim procedure JAR ATPL(H) theory and only ever played with VORs / RMIs / DMEs on MS Flight Simulator. I guess that's why.

For all I know identing VORs might be a practice in flying, just as keeping to the speed limits and believing the stopping distances in the highway code is to driving - make believe.

[Troglodita]

Further to Ubique

In addition to agreeing with everyone who tells you that you MUST Ident ANY Navaid prior to use - you will also look a real d***head calling ATC giving your position relative to a VOR on test (TST)

It is also essential that you either know Morse Code or carry an "idiots guide" so that you can correctly identify a non-standard ident such as test (TST) or an additional "ECHO" signifying that the aid is on emergency power.

[Wizzard]

Firebird,

If during your test you use a VOR without identing the code - you will fail.

[LH2]

Anyone know why they dont all just say .........VOR instead of the morse ident.....??

Because it takes all the mystique out of it, that's why!

Secondarily, not sure how an FMS' autoident feature would cope with those, but that's a minor concern to me

For all I know identing VORs might be a [make believe] practice in flying

For some it is, I have seen pilots who "ident" by listening for the beeps without checking that it is transmitting the expected code. That is a terrible idea for the reasons Trogolodita and others have explained (wrong station, test mode).

btw, what is it they say about no stupid questions, only stupid answers? None is born endowed with knowledge, and I can understand how looking at the way many people operate one can get confused at times. Asking only shows you've got the sense to realise something might be amiss.

Trog

or an additional "ECHO" signifying that the aid is on emergency power

Could you please expand on that? I wasn't aware there was such an indication. Does that apply only to VORs or to other navaids as well?

[ppng]

The reason you need to identify any beacon before using it is that you may die otherwise. In the beginning there were no rules, but they were developed after identifying the causes of fatal accidents in the past.

In the UK you cannot legally fly an Instrument approach in IMC using a GPS waypoint as your reference.

There are always reasons for these things, even if you do not understand or accept them yet.

Or you could just choose to be a - .-- .- -

[RVDT]

Of course not losing sight of the point that unless you are instrument rated in some way you are not qualified to navigate using radio aids anyway.

Seems to be true reading some of the responses here.