How Can I Convince My Family That Helicopter Flying is No More Dangerous Than FW?
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Originally Posted by patatas
Remember that if you are having problems convincing them at the beginning, imagine when you are loaded with the exams, stressed by not having hours enought to get your first job, probably having to move to another country to get hours..., spend more money...
And I do know that statistically helis are more dangerous than FW, but I just dont think its as dangerous as my family think, which is what I am trying to get them to see
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And I do know that statistically helis are more dangerous than FW, but I just dont think its as dangerous as my family think, which is what I am trying to get them to see
Maybe there's another way of going about this. Perhaps you should tell your family what is probably the truth - that you know it's somewhat risky, that it may be difficult to get a job, that an airline job would be safer and more secure. However, your dream is to be a helicopter pilot; nothing else will ever do, for you. You only have one life, and it's short, and you feel you have to give it a go. If it doesn't work, so be it, but you don't want to end up when you're 70 feeling unfulfilled, and saying, "If only...." That because of all that, you'll do it anyway, even without their help if you have to. But that would make it far, far harder, and you trust they'll understand where you're coming from and give you all their support, if they really, really care about you.
Use your words and thoughts, not mine, but if that's the gist of what you actually feel, then go for it!
And if it still doesn't work...well, you can't make other people believe or do what you want.
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Statistically speaking, helicopters are more dangerous to their pilots than FW's. To tell your family otherwise would be a lie. Good luck to you.
Fixed wing what?
If you add all AIB for microlights, gliders, Light GA, ultra lights , home builts, paragliders and handgliders, Helicopters seem a hell of alot safer!
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I find this "what's safer" rubbish such a waste of time!
For example here is a list of train accidents in 2008 alone. and this doesn't include the 6 people killed this year using Railway Crossings in the UK alone.( which is higher than Heli fatalities)
Is your family going to sugguest that you never travel on a bloody train ever again!!
2008
January 23, 2008 – When passenger train numbered D59 high-speed train Beijing-Qingdao plunged into a state owned construction zone where 16th Group workers started safety maintenance of a stretch track at Fangzi, Weifang, Shandong, China, killing 18 workers, injuring another nine.
January 25, 2008 – Sunset Limited Train 1 collided with a semi truck in north-east Harris County, Texas. The driver of the truck was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.
January 27, 2008 – A Pamukkale Express bound for Denizli, with 436 passengers on board derailed after two cars rolled over at Kutahya due to ice on the tracks in western Turkey, killing nine, and injuring another 50.
February 4, 2008 – According to Chinese press report, A 17 car freight train derailed, crushing several houses at Qujing, Kunming-Guizhou Line, Yunnan, China, killing at least six.
February 5, 2008. – Two people died and 1 was injured in a so-called 'fatal chain reaction accident' at a fog-obscured rail crossing in Boswell, about 30 miles west of Lafayette, Indiana. The crash involved 6 vehicles and a 50 car train. The rural crossing has seen 5 other crashes, 2 of which were fatal, since 1984. A major FRA safety review is now planned for this accident hot-spot. The 2 other fatalities were on- October 10, 1984 and February 7, 1986 between a train and a truck, in which both truck drivers and the truck's passenger in the 1984 crash died.[115][116]
February 29, 2008. – Nine people became victims of fire in Bulgarian State Railways' train No.2637. The night train was travelling from Sofia to the north-eastern town of Kardam in Dobrich region. The fire started in a couchette carriage, which had 35 people in it at the time, and then spread to a sleeping coach with 27 people. It broke out as the train was entering the town of Cherven bryag, around midnight, and took more than three hours to extinguish. Among the victims of the fire was the Rasho Rashev, the director of Bulgaria's National Archaeological Institute. Bulgarian government declared March 5 a day of mourning in memory of the victims of the deadly fire.[117][118]
March 9, 2008 – A Mar de Ajo-Buenos Aires regular route bus disregards the National Highway Route 2's crossing signal, where Buenos Aires-Mar del Plata nightly express train with 250 passenger onboard, where hit the bus at El Rapido Argentine line, outskirt of Dolores, state of Buenos Aires, Argentina, killing 26, another 60 injured.[119]
April 16, 2008 – According to ATN Bangla television report, a Dinajpur-Dhaka Ekoto Express train slanmed into a local bus on a level crossing at outskirt of Kalihati, Tangail, Bangladesh, killing 18, another 30 are injured
For example here is a list of train accidents in 2008 alone. and this doesn't include the 6 people killed this year using Railway Crossings in the UK alone.( which is higher than Heli fatalities)
Is your family going to sugguest that you never travel on a bloody train ever again!!
2008
January 23, 2008 – When passenger train numbered D59 high-speed train Beijing-Qingdao plunged into a state owned construction zone where 16th Group workers started safety maintenance of a stretch track at Fangzi, Weifang, Shandong, China, killing 18 workers, injuring another nine.
January 25, 2008 – Sunset Limited Train 1 collided with a semi truck in north-east Harris County, Texas. The driver of the truck was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.
January 27, 2008 – A Pamukkale Express bound for Denizli, with 436 passengers on board derailed after two cars rolled over at Kutahya due to ice on the tracks in western Turkey, killing nine, and injuring another 50.
February 4, 2008 – According to Chinese press report, A 17 car freight train derailed, crushing several houses at Qujing, Kunming-Guizhou Line, Yunnan, China, killing at least six.
February 5, 2008. – Two people died and 1 was injured in a so-called 'fatal chain reaction accident' at a fog-obscured rail crossing in Boswell, about 30 miles west of Lafayette, Indiana. The crash involved 6 vehicles and a 50 car train. The rural crossing has seen 5 other crashes, 2 of which were fatal, since 1984. A major FRA safety review is now planned for this accident hot-spot. The 2 other fatalities were on- October 10, 1984 and February 7, 1986 between a train and a truck, in which both truck drivers and the truck's passenger in the 1984 crash died.[115][116]
February 29, 2008. – Nine people became victims of fire in Bulgarian State Railways' train No.2637. The night train was travelling from Sofia to the north-eastern town of Kardam in Dobrich region. The fire started in a couchette carriage, which had 35 people in it at the time, and then spread to a sleeping coach with 27 people. It broke out as the train was entering the town of Cherven bryag, around midnight, and took more than three hours to extinguish. Among the victims of the fire was the Rasho Rashev, the director of Bulgaria's National Archaeological Institute. Bulgarian government declared March 5 a day of mourning in memory of the victims of the deadly fire.[117][118]
March 9, 2008 – A Mar de Ajo-Buenos Aires regular route bus disregards the National Highway Route 2's crossing signal, where Buenos Aires-Mar del Plata nightly express train with 250 passenger onboard, where hit the bus at El Rapido Argentine line, outskirt of Dolores, state of Buenos Aires, Argentina, killing 26, another 60 injured.[119]
April 16, 2008 – According to ATN Bangla television report, a Dinajpur-Dhaka Ekoto Express train slanmed into a local bus on a level crossing at outskirt of Kalihati, Tangail, Bangladesh, killing 18, another 30 are injured
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Originally Posted by Ken Wells
For example here is a list of train accidents in 2008 alone. and this doesn't include the 6 people killed this year using Railway Crossings in the UK alone.( which is higher than Heli fatalities)
Is your family going to sugguest that you never travel on a bloody train ever again!!
Is your family going to sugguest that you never travel on a bloody train ever again!!
My dad has said tho that if I really want to do it, he will not stand in my way, even tho he will be unhappy, but my mom, well she can think of a million and 1 reasons why I shouldnt, and to be honest, I think even if there is NEVER another heli crash/accident in the world, I still dont think she will be convinced. Something I may just have to accept
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Ken makes a good point. Why don't you suggest to them that you could move into a log cabin in the wilderness with no electric, gas, running water, or modern appliances, become a recluse and never set foot in any sort of motorised vehicle again. That should ensure your continued safety!
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I threw the train statistic at them (ie what Ken Said) and they said
"Well more people travel on trains that in helicopters, hence the higher amount of casualties"
Guess they do have a point there, but my point remains, heli flying isnt as dangerous as THEY think, yes it is, but not what they think.
Maybe I should just drive round in a challenger 2
"Well more people travel on trains that in helicopters, hence the higher amount of casualties"
Guess they do have a point there, but my point remains, heli flying isnt as dangerous as THEY think, yes it is, but not what they think.
Maybe I should just drive round in a challenger 2
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God I have just had a HUGE argument with my mom over this.
She says if I be a heli pilot, I will get bored of it, then it will be a waste of money, also that I am ungrateful, she says I should get a job in IT etc etc. (So a job in IT wouldnt be boring?)
God mothers can be the most irritating thing in the world
She says if I be a heli pilot, I will get bored of it, then it will be a waste of money, also that I am ungrateful, she says I should get a job in IT etc etc. (So a job in IT wouldnt be boring?)
God mothers can be the most irritating thing in the world
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I think if you want to do something you do it!
If you are really passionate about it then your family should see this and support your action. You only live once and for all you know you could pass in a car crash or have a serious throat infection (just an example)..who knows....
Helicopters are dangerous and do crash but alot can be done to stop that.
Such as a well maintained machine, correct training and a positive safe attitude (e.g not being a cowboy). I don't think you should rely on statistics too much but choose a school with an excellant safety record and feel confident when you fly. If you worry all the time flying dosn't become fun.
follow your dream and do what you want to do even thou itis being selfish.
My family knows itis dangerous but they support me and I am very greatful for that.
Cheers,
nath
If you are really passionate about it then your family should see this and support your action. You only live once and for all you know you could pass in a car crash or have a serious throat infection (just an example)..who knows....
Helicopters are dangerous and do crash but alot can be done to stop that.
Such as a well maintained machine, correct training and a positive safe attitude (e.g not being a cowboy). I don't think you should rely on statistics too much but choose a school with an excellant safety record and feel confident when you fly. If you worry all the time flying dosn't become fun.
follow your dream and do what you want to do even thou itis being selfish.
My family knows itis dangerous but they support me and I am very greatful for that.
Cheers,
nath
Last edited by nathan_m; 23rd Apr 2008 at 05:13.
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Nathan
I just wish I had a family as supportive as yours. My dad seems to be ok but my mother is just downright unreasonable.
Yes there are dangers involved, yes its expensive, yes its not at all easy to find a job as a low hour pilot, but if every potential pilot (bar those sponsored/military etc) thought like my mum then there would be NO pilots out there today apart from the type mentioned above
I just wish I had a family as supportive as yours. My dad seems to be ok but my mother is just downright unreasonable.
Yes there are dangers involved, yes its expensive, yes its not at all easy to find a job as a low hour pilot, but if every potential pilot (bar those sponsored/military etc) thought like my mum then there would be NO pilots out there today apart from the type mentioned above
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Speaking for myself, I don't think any of my time flying was wasted. Yes, I went out and got my ratings and then my life took an unexpected turn and I'm doing something else, but I still use the skills I developed flying (decision making, assertiveness, rational thinking) every day, and I think these skills would especially benefit any business venture (you did mention a family business) you would become involved in. Perhaps it would help your mom if she had a chance to discuss her concerns with someone in the industry? Feel free to PM.
Jolly
Jolly
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Thanks Jolly
At the moment tho (as of this morning) my mother and I are not on speaking terms. The conversation started with me wanting to fly helicopters, one thing led to another and ended up having a massive argument.
The stress I am having, and I havent even started yet lol
Once (or if) we are speaking again, I may take you up on that offer.
Thanks again
At the moment tho (as of this morning) my mother and I are not on speaking terms. The conversation started with me wanting to fly helicopters, one thing led to another and ended up having a massive argument.
The stress I am having, and I havent even started yet lol
Once (or if) we are speaking again, I may take you up on that offer.
Thanks again
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Garfs,
I'm going to be blunt about this. Falling out with your mum to that extent over this is ridiculous and childish. She ought to accept that you're an adult and it's your life to do with as you see fit. On the other hand, YOU ought to accept her point of view, even if it seems illogical. You've explained to her, and she won't accept your arguments - well, she has that right. She won't help you financially - well, there's no law that says a parent has to help a child in the career they want. It's your parents' money, not yours. Maybe you'll have to fund it yourself, as and when you can, even if it means waiting years and years. Some of the rest of us had to do that, and it didn't kill us.
Your mum is refusing to see your point of view, but equally, you're refusing to see hers. Wanting to be a helicopter pilot is as illogical as refusing to accept that helicopters aren't all that dangerous.
I know how you feel, and I sympathise. But maybe you need to grow up and realise that the universe doesn't revolve around you and your desires, if you're ever to have the maturity to be a helicopter pilot.
Also, you only have one mum, and I'm sure she loves you and you love her. She's much more important than any bit of machinery. Don't fall out with her over this.
I'm going to be blunt about this. Falling out with your mum to that extent over this is ridiculous and childish. She ought to accept that you're an adult and it's your life to do with as you see fit. On the other hand, YOU ought to accept her point of view, even if it seems illogical. You've explained to her, and she won't accept your arguments - well, she has that right. She won't help you financially - well, there's no law that says a parent has to help a child in the career they want. It's your parents' money, not yours. Maybe you'll have to fund it yourself, as and when you can, even if it means waiting years and years. Some of the rest of us had to do that, and it didn't kill us.
Your mum is refusing to see your point of view, but equally, you're refusing to see hers. Wanting to be a helicopter pilot is as illogical as refusing to accept that helicopters aren't all that dangerous.
I know how you feel, and I sympathise. But maybe you need to grow up and realise that the universe doesn't revolve around you and your desires, if you're ever to have the maturity to be a helicopter pilot.
Also, you only have one mum, and I'm sure she loves you and you love her. She's much more important than any bit of machinery. Don't fall out with her over this.
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Originally Posted by WhirlyBIrd
But maybe you need to grow up and realise that the universe doesn't revolve around you and your desires, if you're ever to have the maturity to be a helicopter pilot.
Funding has become somewhat irrelevant to me at this point. What I want is that If I ever land that first job, I would rather see a smile on her face as opposed to an angry one, ie I just want her to be happy for me on my endeavours
I dont want the world to revolve around my desires, just want her to be happy for me on my chosen career path whether I make it or not.
This morning she asked me if I still wanted to be a helicopter pilot, I said yes, she got angry, shouted, and is not speaking to me. I didnt look or want to fall out with her. I have decied to stop speaking to her about it.
Yes I can wait years and fund it myself which I am probably going to do. I have been told the Local Aviation AUthority (Our CAA Equivalent) specifies the following
"Course must run (60) weeks to meet the continuity requirement of effective academic learning for 24 weeks and 36 weeks of flight program to achieve 150.0 flying hours. "
ie no Modular route available like in the UK, which would make it easier for me.
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Whirly
Falling out with your mum to that extent over this is ridiculous and childish
But maybe you need to grow up and realise that the universe doesn't revolve around you and your desires, if you're ever to have the maturity to be a helicopter pilot.
I'm sure you're a nice person Whirly, just like Garf is, but he's looking for support his mother obviously isn't giving him.
You start with the 'GO FOR IT' message... Touching.
However, your dream is to be a helicopter pilot; nothing else will ever do, for you. You only have one life, and it's short, and you feel you have to give it a go. If it doesn't work, so be it, but you don't want to end up when you're 70 feeling unfulfilled, and saying, "If only...." That because of all that, you'll do it anyway, even without their help if you have to. But that would make it far, far harder, and you trust they'll understand where you're coming from and give you all their support, if they really, really care about you.
Use your words and thoughts, not mine, but if that's the gist of what you actually feel, then go for it! And if it still doesn't work...well, you can't make other people believe or do what you want.
Use your words and thoughts, not mine, but if that's the gist of what you actually feel, then go for it!
And if it still doesn't work...well, you can't make other people believe or do what you want.
Also, you only have one mum, and I'm sure she loves you and you love her. She's much more important than any bit of machinery. Don't fall out with her over this.
Last edited by Kerosine; 23rd Apr 2008 at 16:16. Reason: made distinction between Whirls and Whirly (Sorry about that Whirls!)
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I know what you're going through. I've spent 10 years now as an engineer listening to what other folks tell me the "smart play" is. Even now at 32, my parents are convinced that flying is some sort of phase that I'll grow out of, and that I'd be much better off doubling my hours at a job that I hate in the hopes that I can retire "early" 25 years from now instead of 30.
So I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for your being able to change your mom's mind. Just do whatever it is you need to do to be happy. Luckily, I don't have a family of my own yet so I can still change my career, but it's easy to become trapped in a profession you despise if you're not careful. If the thought of mom disapproving of your career choice hurts that much, just imagine how unhappy your future wife would be when you tell her you want to risk your family's financial security to go chase your dream.
On the other hand, if your folks are willing to cut a check for fixed wing training, why not take them up on it and transition to helos when you can do it on your own terms? While the hours won't translate 1:1 to a helo employer, they're never completely discounted.
So I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for your being able to change your mom's mind. Just do whatever it is you need to do to be happy. Luckily, I don't have a family of my own yet so I can still change my career, but it's easy to become trapped in a profession you despise if you're not careful. If the thought of mom disapproving of your career choice hurts that much, just imagine how unhappy your future wife would be when you tell her you want to risk your family's financial security to go chase your dream.
On the other hand, if your folks are willing to cut a check for fixed wing training, why not take them up on it and transition to helos when you can do it on your own terms? While the hours won't translate 1:1 to a helo employer, they're never completely discounted.
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No, Kerosine, not contradictory, but different advice for different conversations and times. Nothing is set in stone and right for ever and ever.
I first suggested that Garfs make it clear to his parents just how important this was to him. But as I said at the end of that post you quoted, if that doesn't work...
I then got the impression that Garfs had thrown his toys out of his pram because his mum wouldn't agree with him or do what he wanted, ie support him. If that was the case, he would be better off not arguing with her, and definitely not falling out with her over this. He could and should still follow his dream, but in his own time, at his own expense. At no time did I say that flying isn't that important, to someone for whom it obviously is.
Garfs' last post suggests that I got it wrong about the argument, despite the fact he had stated...
If that's the case, his decision to stop speaking to his mum about it and fund his own course is absolutely spot on, IMHO. I would have said so, if I'd had time to read his post before you posted.
I can't for the life of me see why you think I'm throwing my weight around or demeaning someone any more than anyone else on here. I was trying to help, that's all. "Support" didn't seem to me to be what was needed at the point I posted, and it could have been quite patronising in fact. I could have been wrong, but since when has that been a hanging offence? I certainly don't think I'm "all-wise" and neither do I have thousands of flying hours - barely over the thousand mark, in fact. I can't see what I've done to cause your outburst...do you have a problem with me, based on earlier posts of mine? If so, it's allowed, but let's not waste bandwidth on this thread arguing about it.
I first suggested that Garfs make it clear to his parents just how important this was to him. But as I said at the end of that post you quoted, if that doesn't work...
you can't make other people believe or do what you want.
Garfs' last post suggests that I got it wrong about the argument, despite the fact he had stated...
one thing led to another and ended up having a massive argument.
I can't for the life of me see why you think I'm throwing my weight around or demeaning someone any more than anyone else on here. I was trying to help, that's all. "Support" didn't seem to me to be what was needed at the point I posted, and it could have been quite patronising in fact. I could have been wrong, but since when has that been a hanging offence? I certainly don't think I'm "all-wise" and neither do I have thousands of flying hours - barely over the thousand mark, in fact. I can't see what I've done to cause your outburst...do you have a problem with me, based on earlier posts of mine? If so, it's allowed, but let's not waste bandwidth on this thread arguing about it.
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There's not a single problem with you Whirly, I know you're a good'un, I just worded that in a rather blunt way.
I posted because a wanabee in an already precarious point in his life deciding between keeping his mother happy and his career was getting a dressing down in a forum where he is looking for advice.
When you say you felt like he threw hiw toys out of the pram, did you mean his last post?
Or the one before?
I can't see how you thought he needed to 'grow up', all of his posts prior seem to display a calm/mature approach to the situation.
Also, who has never had a massive argument with one of their parents?
Regardless, thread back on track..
If your mum is the really stubborn type, will she ever change? It's a shame that she doesn't realise you're aspiring to something higher than an average deskjob (no offence intended, I am one of those for now!). Bear in mind that one day your mother won't be around any more, is that the time when you should do what you want? 20/30/40 years down the line? Make the move now, try to spare yourself the midlife crisis. This isn't a dress rehersal
I posted because a wanabee in an already precarious point in his life deciding between keeping his mother happy and his career was getting a dressing down in a forum where he is looking for advice.
When you say you felt like he threw hiw toys out of the pram, did you mean his last post?
Thanks Jolly
At the moment tho (as of this morning) my mother and I are not on speaking terms. The conversation started with me wanting to fly helicopters, one thing led to another and ended up having a massive argument.
The stress I am having, and I havent even started yet lol
Once (or if) we are speaking again, I may take you up on that offer.
Thanks again
At the moment tho (as of this morning) my mother and I are not on speaking terms. The conversation started with me wanting to fly helicopters, one thing led to another and ended up having a massive argument.
The stress I am having, and I havent even started yet lol
Once (or if) we are speaking again, I may take you up on that offer.
Thanks again
Nathan
I just wish I had a family as supportive as yours. My dad seems to be ok but my mother is just downright unreasonable.
Yes there are dangers involved, yes its expensive, yes its not at all easy to find a job as a low hour pilot, but if every potential pilot (bar those sponsored/military etc) thought like my mum then there would be NO pilots out there today apart from the type mentioned above
I just wish I had a family as supportive as yours. My dad seems to be ok but my mother is just downright unreasonable.
Yes there are dangers involved, yes its expensive, yes its not at all easy to find a job as a low hour pilot, but if every potential pilot (bar those sponsored/military etc) thought like my mum then there would be NO pilots out there today apart from the type mentioned above
Also, who has never had a massive argument with one of their parents?
Regardless, thread back on track..
If your mum is the really stubborn type, will she ever change? It's a shame that she doesn't realise you're aspiring to something higher than an average deskjob (no offence intended, I am one of those for now!). Bear in mind that one day your mother won't be around any more, is that the time when you should do what you want? 20/30/40 years down the line? Make the move now, try to spare yourself the midlife crisis. This isn't a dress rehersal