Cpl/ir(a) => Ppl(h)
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Cpl/ir(a) => Ppl(h)
I have CPL/IR(A) and had been thinking of doing PPL(H) for just the fun. I already have a bit of "unofficial" time on Seakings and Pumas from squaddy days and also a trial flight on R44 which was great fun and got me really hooked. But I was a bit surprised after the R44 trial to find that my fixed wing experience only excuses me from five hours from the 42 hour minimum PPL syllabus. I read on another thread that helicopter pilots normally solo after eight hours or so - so what will I be doing for the remaining 30 hours of the PPL syllabus? OK, I am sure emergencies and autorotation etc are a handful for a fixed wing pilot - but all the nav/radio/airmanship stuff is not different, or is it? Grateful for any enlightenment from helicopter instructors!
Hovering AND talking
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If you're considering the JAA licence, then the maximum credit you have is 6 hours from a 45 hour course i.e. the minimum hours in which you can complete a PPL(H) is 39.
Solo in 8 hours might be possible given you have flying experience but don't be disappointed if you don't! I wouldn't say that was average.
You'll have to sit a Principles of Flight exam plus the exam for the type rating.
Radio is only a tiny bit different, airmanship again is mostly the same and navigation is often on a different scale but the principles are the same.
Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that very few students complete a PPL(H) in minimum hours and that 60/70 hours is not uncommon; therefore, I think there'll be plenty to do in your 39 hours! There are exercises such as quick stops and confined area landings which need to be covered.
As I'm sure you've appreciated, you won't be able to take your hands off the controls much, therefore you may need to get into the habit of memorising clearances as it may take a while before you have the skill and confidence to write things down!!
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Whirls
Solo in 8 hours might be possible given you have flying experience but don't be disappointed if you don't! I wouldn't say that was average.
You'll have to sit a Principles of Flight exam plus the exam for the type rating.
Radio is only a tiny bit different, airmanship again is mostly the same and navigation is often on a different scale but the principles are the same.
Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that very few students complete a PPL(H) in minimum hours and that 60/70 hours is not uncommon; therefore, I think there'll be plenty to do in your 39 hours! There are exercises such as quick stops and confined area landings which need to be covered.
As I'm sure you've appreciated, you won't be able to take your hands off the controls much, therefore you may need to get into the habit of memorising clearances as it may take a while before you have the skill and confidence to write things down!!
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Whirls
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Not sure about JAA requirements, but if you train in an R22 (and perhaps in an R44) FAA requires you have a minimum of 20 hours of dual to solo these acft.
I made the transition you describe about a year ago under FAA rules, beginning in an R22 and finishing in an E480B (and having CPL-AIM and 2000 hrs in planks). I took the flight test at 64 hrs TT; this might have been done a bit sooner if I had stayed with one acft throughout the training. There are many more ways to get into trouble in a helo (as compared to an airplane), so probably ill advised to rush it.
I made the transition you describe about a year ago under FAA rules, beginning in an R22 and finishing in an E480B (and having CPL-AIM and 2000 hrs in planks). I took the flight test at 64 hrs TT; this might have been done a bit sooner if I had stayed with one acft throughout the training. There are many more ways to get into trouble in a helo (as compared to an airplane), so probably ill advised to rush it.
Red On, Green On
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A few things you won't have done in a plank:
Confined areas, take off/land on sloping ground, limited power operation, quick stops, hovering in/out of ground effect, engine off landings (OK, you've done glide approaches, but a full auto is a tad different).
The RN put all RW studes through 80 hours on the Bulldog in my day (now it's 60 hours), just to teach them airmanship, LL nav etc., and the syllabus planned for first solo at 12 hours in the Gazelle, arguably a much easier platform than an R22.
Confined areas, take off/land on sloping ground, limited power operation, quick stops, hovering in/out of ground effect, engine off landings (OK, you've done glide approaches, but a full auto is a tad different).
The RN put all RW studes through 80 hours on the Bulldog in my day (now it's 60 hours), just to teach them airmanship, LL nav etc., and the syllabus planned for first solo at 12 hours in the Gazelle, arguably a much easier platform than an R22.
Rich - the biggest difference you will find is the lack of stability, a fixed wing ac is inherently stable and pretty much flys itself - a helicopter is quite the opposite.
I suspect the Sea King/Puma poling you did was with the autostab in which reduces pilot workload considerably.
As Whirlygig said - it means you can't take your hands off the controls (none of the helis you will fly for PPLH even have a stick trim) and you have to concentrate on flying the aircraft all the time which saps capacity for other things like RT, airmanship and Nav.
All students are different and progress at different rates - I have taught some people to hover in 30 mins - others take several hours.
The flexibility of the helicopter to operate without several thousands of yards of tarmac or grass strip means that the syllabus involves many more exercises than you will have seen during FW training.
As you have discovered, helicopter flying is addictive and every FW pilot I have ever taken in a heli has been converted to the rotary cause on the spot. Inside every plank driver there is a heli pilot trying to get out
Good luck.
I suspect the Sea King/Puma poling you did was with the autostab in which reduces pilot workload considerably.
As Whirlygig said - it means you can't take your hands off the controls (none of the helis you will fly for PPLH even have a stick trim) and you have to concentrate on flying the aircraft all the time which saps capacity for other things like RT, airmanship and Nav.
All students are different and progress at different rates - I have taught some people to hover in 30 mins - others take several hours.
The flexibility of the helicopter to operate without several thousands of yards of tarmac or grass strip means that the syllabus involves many more exercises than you will have seen during FW training.
As you have discovered, helicopter flying is addictive and every FW pilot I have ever taken in a heli has been converted to the rotary cause on the spot. Inside every plank driver there is a heli pilot trying to get out
Good luck.
Hovering AND talking
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The Schweizer 300 C/CBi has stick trim! It doesn't mean you can take your hand off the cyclic but it does mean that your bicep won't be so developed!
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
The Original Whirly
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If you learn on an R22 I'll be surprised if you're ready for solo in less than 20 hours, and even in a Schweizer 300 or R44 it won't make that much difference.. Hovering a small helicopter is simply not like anything else you'll have done in a fixed-wing aircraft. Having a go at flying a helicopter in the air doesn't show you that.
As for the post solo exercises....
Ex 13 - Hovering sideways and backwards. Often done before first solo, but it'll be new to you
Ex 14 - Spot turns...interesting in windy conditions!
Ex 15 - Vortex Ring recovery. Do you know what it is? Not difficult, but will still take a bit of time, and still new.
Ex 16 - Engine-off landings - very different to PFLS in a plank.
Ex 17 - Advanced Autorotations - speeding up, slowing down, looking at ground covered, altering rotor RPM for same reason...a lot there.
Ex 18 - Forced landings - put last two exercises together and try to make...not just a field, but any flat area. If you have extra hours, getting better at it than the average PPL(H) is not such a bad idea!
Ex 19 - Steep turns - won't take you long
Ex 20 - Precision transitions. Usually combined with...
Ex 21 - Quick stops. Great fun low level manoeuvring, not difficult, but you won't have done anything like it!
Ex 22 - Navigation. You won't need much, but you will need to learn about cockpit management when you can barely take your hands off the controls. But a couple of hours or so should do it.
Ex 23 - Advanced takeoffs, landings, and transitions - used to be called Operating Out of Wind, and that's basically what it is...because helicopters can!
Ex 24 - Sloping ground - New for you, and quite difficult.
Ex 25 - Limited power...how to take off and land when you don't have the power to hover...again, new.
Ex 26 - Confined areas - how to do a recce and then get in to that hotel landing site between the trees or your friend's postage stamp sized garden.
Ex 27 - instrument flying - a bit harder than f/w as such an unstable platform, but if you have an IR, I can't see it being a problem for you.
But I hope you can see now that you won't be twiddling your thumbs for any part of that 39 hours! It's a fun course, and you'll learn lots; enjoy it.
As for the post solo exercises....
Ex 13 - Hovering sideways and backwards. Often done before first solo, but it'll be new to you
Ex 14 - Spot turns...interesting in windy conditions!
Ex 15 - Vortex Ring recovery. Do you know what it is? Not difficult, but will still take a bit of time, and still new.
Ex 16 - Engine-off landings - very different to PFLS in a plank.
Ex 17 - Advanced Autorotations - speeding up, slowing down, looking at ground covered, altering rotor RPM for same reason...a lot there.
Ex 18 - Forced landings - put last two exercises together and try to make...not just a field, but any flat area. If you have extra hours, getting better at it than the average PPL(H) is not such a bad idea!
Ex 19 - Steep turns - won't take you long
Ex 20 - Precision transitions. Usually combined with...
Ex 21 - Quick stops. Great fun low level manoeuvring, not difficult, but you won't have done anything like it!
Ex 22 - Navigation. You won't need much, but you will need to learn about cockpit management when you can barely take your hands off the controls. But a couple of hours or so should do it.
Ex 23 - Advanced takeoffs, landings, and transitions - used to be called Operating Out of Wind, and that's basically what it is...because helicopters can!
Ex 24 - Sloping ground - New for you, and quite difficult.
Ex 25 - Limited power...how to take off and land when you don't have the power to hover...again, new.
Ex 26 - Confined areas - how to do a recce and then get in to that hotel landing site between the trees or your friend's postage stamp sized garden.
Ex 27 - instrument flying - a bit harder than f/w as such an unstable platform, but if you have an IR, I can't see it being a problem for you.
But I hope you can see now that you won't be twiddling your thumbs for any part of that 39 hours! It's a fun course, and you'll learn lots; enjoy it.
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Thanks for the advice folks! It sounds fun and even if I run out of money it sounds like a bit of RW experience will be good for my FW flying.
