Brazil Helicopter Ditching
Thread Starter
Brazil Helicopter Ditching
Got a ditching in Brazil from the on-line news here. 20 Pax, must be a heavy. Anybody have anything more on it?
malabo
Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, February 26, 2008
One person is dead and four others are missing tonight after a helicopter operated by a Brazilian affiliate of Vancouver-based CHC Helicopter Corp. made an emergency landing.
The helicopter, operated by BHS Brazilian Helicopter Services Taxi Aereo SA, had 20 people onboard when it came down in the waters of the Campos Basin, located about 100 kilometres off the coast of Brazil.
The helicopter was under contract to Petrobras Brasileiro SA.
Search and rescue operations are ongoing in the area. As of 7 p.m. local time, 15 people had been rescued, said a news release issued by CHC that quoted a statement from Petrobras.
malabo
Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, February 26, 2008
One person is dead and four others are missing tonight after a helicopter operated by a Brazilian affiliate of Vancouver-based CHC Helicopter Corp. made an emergency landing.
The helicopter, operated by BHS Brazilian Helicopter Services Taxi Aereo SA, had 20 people onboard when it came down in the waters of the Campos Basin, located about 100 kilometres off the coast of Brazil.
The helicopter was under contract to Petrobras Brasileiro SA.
Search and rescue operations are ongoing in the area. As of 7 p.m. local time, 15 people had been rescued, said a news release issued by CHC that quoted a statement from Petrobras.
Thread Starter
CNN says it was a 332L2
February 26, 2008: 09:47 PM EST
CHC Helicopter Corporation ("CHC") (TSX: FLY.A)(TSX: FLY.B)(NYSE: FLI) regrets to report that an AS332L2 helicopter, operated by BHS Brazilian Helicopter Services Taxi Aereo SA ("BHS") made an emergency landing into the waters of the Campos Basin approximately 100 kilometres off the coast of Brazil at approximately 1630hrs local time, Tuesday, February 26, 2008. The helicopter was under contract to Petrobras Brasileiro SA which has released the following information in a press release: "There were 20 persons on board, 3 crew members and 17 passengers. As of 1900hrs local time, 15 persons have been rescued, 4 persons are still missing and 1 confirmed fatality. Search and rescue efforts are ongoing."
February 26, 2008: 09:47 PM EST
CHC Helicopter Corporation ("CHC") (TSX: FLY.A)(TSX: FLY.B)(NYSE: FLI) regrets to report that an AS332L2 helicopter, operated by BHS Brazilian Helicopter Services Taxi Aereo SA ("BHS") made an emergency landing into the waters of the Campos Basin approximately 100 kilometres off the coast of Brazil at approximately 1630hrs local time, Tuesday, February 26, 2008. The helicopter was under contract to Petrobras Brasileiro SA which has released the following information in a press release: "There were 20 persons on board, 3 crew members and 17 passengers. As of 1900hrs local time, 15 persons have been rescued, 4 persons are still missing and 1 confirmed fatality. Search and rescue efforts are ongoing."
http://www.neftegaz.ru/english/lenta/show.php?id=76348
4 Petrobras Workers Missed, 1 Killed in a Helicopter Crush
One person killed and four missing after a forced landing of a helicopter carrying Brazilian oil workers, who left an offshore oil rig Tuesday.
The Petrobras helicopter went down less than 100 kilometers offshore from the coastal city of Macae. It was carrying 17 oil workers and three crew members.
More than a dozen ships and three helicopters searched Tuesday night for the four missing people. The other 15 people aboard the helicopter were rescued.
The helicopter was traveling to another nearby oil rig when the accident occurred.
4 Petrobras Workers Missed, 1 Killed in a Helicopter Crush
One person killed and four missing after a forced landing of a helicopter carrying Brazilian oil workers, who left an offshore oil rig Tuesday.
The Petrobras helicopter went down less than 100 kilometers offshore from the coastal city of Macae. It was carrying 17 oil workers and three crew members.
More than a dozen ships and three helicopters searched Tuesday night for the four missing people. The other 15 people aboard the helicopter were rescued.
The helicopter was traveling to another nearby oil rig when the accident occurred.
Update
Petrobras reported that three people have died and two are still missing after a helicopter flying for Brazil's state-run oil company had to make an emergency landing on Feb. 26.
Despite "weather conditions … appropriate for the flight," the helicopter made the emergency landing at sea when it was unable to maintain altitude. Of the 20 people on board the aircraft, 15 were rescued alive at sea. Three of the 20 people aboard were crew members, including pilot Sergio Ricardo Muller who has been hospitalized and is reported to be in stable condition.
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The helicopter, a Super Puma L2 owned and operated by a subsidiary of CHC Helicopter Corporation, was forced into rough seas 75 miles offshore Brazil and remained floating for a couple of hours, according to news reports. The aircraft eventually sank to a depth of 900 yards where two additional bodies were identified by search and rescue robots.
Reports indicate that the aircraft carried 17 oil workers and three crew members. The helicopter was flying from a rig offshore Brazil to Macae.
Petrobras stated that the search and rescue will continue. The search involves 13 vessels and three helicopters "on call in the area, one of which [is a] medical airvac chopper."
In 2002, StatoilHydro grounded half of their helicopter fleet for inspection after a pendulum weight in the rotor head created substantial damage to a main rotor blade. All of the aircrafts grounded by StatoilHydro were Super Puma L2 helicopters.
Despite "weather conditions … appropriate for the flight," the helicopter made the emergency landing at sea when it was unable to maintain altitude. Of the 20 people on board the aircraft, 15 were rescued alive at sea. Three of the 20 people aboard were crew members, including pilot Sergio Ricardo Muller who has been hospitalized and is reported to be in stable condition.
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The helicopter, a Super Puma L2 owned and operated by a subsidiary of CHC Helicopter Corporation, was forced into rough seas 75 miles offshore Brazil and remained floating for a couple of hours, according to news reports. The aircraft eventually sank to a depth of 900 yards where two additional bodies were identified by search and rescue robots.
Reports indicate that the aircraft carried 17 oil workers and three crew members. The helicopter was flying from a rig offshore Brazil to Macae.
Petrobras stated that the search and rescue will continue. The search involves 13 vessels and three helicopters "on call in the area, one of which [is a] medical airvac chopper."
In 2002, StatoilHydro grounded half of their helicopter fleet for inspection after a pendulum weight in the rotor head created substantial damage to a main rotor blade. All of the aircrafts grounded by StatoilHydro were Super Puma L2 helicopters.
"...unable to maintain altitude...."?
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Sadly, it seems that the Brazilian helicopter operators lose more than their fair share of aircraft.
Lots of the guys working there don't even have a basic knowledge of english, so one can only wonder how Flight Manuals/Maintenance Manuals are referenced. I have heard accounts of maintenance being done with the IPC as the only reference and things like torque values being ignored.
If this is indeed the case, then it's small wonder that there are not more such occurences than what they already have.
And this for a country that actually MANUFACTURES aircraft.
Lots of the guys working there don't even have a basic knowledge of english, so one can only wonder how Flight Manuals/Maintenance Manuals are referenced. I have heard accounts of maintenance being done with the IPC as the only reference and things like torque values being ignored.
If this is indeed the case, then it's small wonder that there are not more such occurences than what they already have.
And this for a country that actually MANUFACTURES aircraft.
UL
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you are employed neither by CHC nor BHS.
Would it be too much to ask that we be allowed to mourn our dead before starting in on the rumours, innuendo and hearsay?
Thanks
Albatross
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you are employed neither by CHC nor BHS.
Would it be too much to ask that we be allowed to mourn our dead before starting in on the rumours, innuendo and hearsay?
Thanks
Albatross
You don't have to go as far as Brazil to see maintenance being carried out using the IPC as the sole reference. I happened upon a mechanic stripping down a 737 dv window (pressurised) using photocopied IPC pages at a major UK facility about 2 years ago. He inadvertantly divulged the information that they did not have the component maintenance manual for the window.
He was unaware that I was a rep for the airline.
The window was replaced!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was unaware that I was a rep for the airline.
The window was replaced!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Maintenance and Flight Manuals
Unstable Load
What you say about the pilots and engineers in much of the Brazilian helicopter world may be true but it may also be true of many other parts of the world into which Western helicopter manufacturers sell their wares.
What is the solution - tell me what you would suggest? Don't even think about language lessons. There aren't enough English teachers with the correct technical language skills to even touch it and the crews have neither the inclination or the spare time to crack an English course in any reasonable time-span.
What we really need is for the National Aviation Authority to refuse to certify any helicopter that is imported into their country without Technical Support in the native tongue. It beggars belief that manufacturers have such little integrity and such a lack of appreciation of the consequences of delivering an aircraft with documentation that cannot be read and understood by the guys they are delivering to. It reminds me of the worst aspects of the greedy salesman who wants to score a sale and run away from the consequences thereafter.
Before I get beaten up the same problems may well exist for Western operators of Eastern Equipment.
If they won't do it voluntarily then manufacturers ought to be made to behave responsibly.
G
What you say about the pilots and engineers in much of the Brazilian helicopter world may be true but it may also be true of many other parts of the world into which Western helicopter manufacturers sell their wares.
What is the solution - tell me what you would suggest? Don't even think about language lessons. There aren't enough English teachers with the correct technical language skills to even touch it and the crews have neither the inclination or the spare time to crack an English course in any reasonable time-span.
What we really need is for the National Aviation Authority to refuse to certify any helicopter that is imported into their country without Technical Support in the native tongue. It beggars belief that manufacturers have such little integrity and such a lack of appreciation of the consequences of delivering an aircraft with documentation that cannot be read and understood by the guys they are delivering to. It reminds me of the worst aspects of the greedy salesman who wants to score a sale and run away from the consequences thereafter.
Before I get beaten up the same problems may well exist for Western operators of Eastern Equipment.
If they won't do it voluntarily then manufacturers ought to be made to behave responsibly.
G
Surely the ultimate responsibility lies with the Operator?
Any manufacturer can sell anything to any willing (and financially capable) entity. Any Airworthiness authority will certify whatever meets its regulatory reqiurements. It is the Operators responsibility to ensure that it operates the machine in accordance with the appropriate approved data; surely this includes the ability to possess, read and interpret that same data?
Whatever the solution, it surely lies in the hands of the Operators as the ones who are getting paid to operate the aircraft and bear the responsibility for the safe operation of the helicopter? What about the new types with no real Maintenance Manual - it is in a constant state of production?
Of course, it might all get tested in court!
Any manufacturer can sell anything to any willing (and financially capable) entity. Any Airworthiness authority will certify whatever meets its regulatory reqiurements. It is the Operators responsibility to ensure that it operates the machine in accordance with the appropriate approved data; surely this includes the ability to possess, read and interpret that same data?
Whatever the solution, it surely lies in the hands of the Operators as the ones who are getting paid to operate the aircraft and bear the responsibility for the safe operation of the helicopter? What about the new types with no real Maintenance Manual - it is in a constant state of production?
Of course, it might all get tested in court!
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Cyclic Hotline
Well that approach will surely go down well with consumers - NOT 
Just imagine you bought an electric iron or kettle made in Japan and the instructions were in Japanese. It was sold through the manufacturer's own outlet just down the block. After the house burnt down who do you think is:
a. morally at fault for marketing the product without the appropriate instructions
b. legally exposed to an expensive law suit.
Plenty of food for thought methinks.
G
Just imagine you bought an electric iron or kettle made in Japan and the instructions were in Japanese. It was sold through the manufacturer's own outlet just down the block. After the house burnt down who do you think is:
a. morally at fault for marketing the product without the appropriate instructions
b. legally exposed to an expensive law suit.
Plenty of food for thought methinks.
G
It obviously goes down satisfactorily with the consumers, as they both purchase and operate the aircraft.
Further to that they pass the certification criteria for the aircraft to be placed on the national registry; then to be operated by an organization approved by that same national regulatory authority; operated and maintained by people certified as qualified to perform those functions by, yet again, the same regulatory agency.
Then, guess what - they pass the infamous Oil Company auditing process that is designed to exceed all other qualifications and ensure that nothing slips through the process.
And all this was done while being operated by the largest Helicopter company in the world?
Something might be broken, by in this particular instance, it can hardly be laid at the hands of the manufacturer?
I thought it might be worth quoting the appropriate Brazilian regualtions, but unfortunately they are only available in Portugese, thus making the situation even less comprehensible to those who do not understand the language.
http://www.anac.gov.br/certificacao/MPH/MPHE.asp
Further to that they pass the certification criteria for the aircraft to be placed on the national registry; then to be operated by an organization approved by that same national regulatory authority; operated and maintained by people certified as qualified to perform those functions by, yet again, the same regulatory agency.
Then, guess what - they pass the infamous Oil Company auditing process that is designed to exceed all other qualifications and ensure that nothing slips through the process.
And all this was done while being operated by the largest Helicopter company in the world?
Something might be broken, by in this particular instance, it can hardly be laid at the hands of the manufacturer?
I thought it might be worth quoting the appropriate Brazilian regualtions, but unfortunately they are only available in Portugese, thus making the situation even less comprehensible to those who do not understand the language.
http://www.anac.gov.br/certificacao/MPH/MPHE.asp
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Cyclic Hotline
OK, so we are where we are but that does not make it right. For many years the NAA in Brazil was run by the military and to all intents and purposes the guys, who were doing their best with no relevant type or operational experience couldn't police the system effectively. The licensing process for pilots and engineers was (is?) IMHO dysfunctional though there are signs that the new NAA (now civilianised) is trying to rectify the situation.
The oil companies move 45 to 50,000 people offshore every month and the oil cannot be recovered without helicopter support so they are between a rock and a hard place. They do their best to bully operators into higher standards and are prepared to pay a premium to get them but remember that no foreign pilots or AOC holders are allowed to work in Brazil. There are a few ex-pat engineers but none as far as I know in any position of influence. Remember good old Rumsfeld's "You don't know what you don't know".
Now - do you want to sit around and argue or do you want to do something about it. The manufacturers sell just like selling candy to a baby but is it right that you sell a lethal weapon to somebody who cannot read the instruction book. If you say 'yes' then this interesting debate ends now. If you say 'what can we do to put things right' then we can continue in a constructive vein.
If language is an issue and we cannot solve it by converting the many hundreds of non-English speakers in a realistic time-scale then what can we do.
There are maybe a thousand or two language battles to fight with the pilots and engineers or we can fight the battle with the half dozen companies that make the darn things. I find it hard sometimes to understand why the manufacturers cannot see that every accident, even those caused by ignorant pilots and mechanics still casts a dark shadow over their products.
If every manufacturer shipping to the developing world was forced by the NAAs to provide data in their language then it wont be long before:-
a. It is generally accepted as the done thing
b. all manufacturers have a level playing field
c. they get to be good at it (have you ever read an ASB in English from EC?)
The customer would pay for this privilege but I believe, from I have seen, that it is worthwhile.
In the long term the culture of not speaking English in the helicopter community may be replaced by one that does speak English.... but don't hold your breath.
G
The oil companies move 45 to 50,000 people offshore every month and the oil cannot be recovered without helicopter support so they are between a rock and a hard place. They do their best to bully operators into higher standards and are prepared to pay a premium to get them but remember that no foreign pilots or AOC holders are allowed to work in Brazil. There are a few ex-pat engineers but none as far as I know in any position of influence. Remember good old Rumsfeld's "You don't know what you don't know".
Now - do you want to sit around and argue or do you want to do something about it. The manufacturers sell just like selling candy to a baby but is it right that you sell a lethal weapon to somebody who cannot read the instruction book. If you say 'yes' then this interesting debate ends now. If you say 'what can we do to put things right' then we can continue in a constructive vein.
If language is an issue and we cannot solve it by converting the many hundreds of non-English speakers in a realistic time-scale then what can we do.
There are maybe a thousand or two language battles to fight with the pilots and engineers or we can fight the battle with the half dozen companies that make the darn things. I find it hard sometimes to understand why the manufacturers cannot see that every accident, even those caused by ignorant pilots and mechanics still casts a dark shadow over their products.
If every manufacturer shipping to the developing world was forced by the NAAs to provide data in their language then it wont be long before:-
a. It is generally accepted as the done thing
b. all manufacturers have a level playing field
c. they get to be good at it (have you ever read an ASB in English from EC?)
The customer would pay for this privilege but I believe, from I have seen, that it is worthwhile.
In the long term the culture of not speaking English in the helicopter community may be replaced by one that does speak English.... but don't hold your breath.
G
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The ditching part
I believe that those flight manuals are printed in Portuguese. However, if one of those crapboxes go down they will go down; regardless if it's a Bell helicopter or one of those french baguettes flying through the air. Interestingly, and referring to one of those previous posts, one might assume that our Brazilian mates in this industry are inferior when it comes to the point of dealing with emergencies. However, I think they are not!!!
Ever tried to print an aircraft manual in pigeon English so our esteemed colleagues on the opposite coast figure out what on earth is going on when things go wrong?
I think, no matter where one flies, it takes a lot of guts to put one of these cans into the water..language problems or not. Just an opinion
Ever tried to print an aircraft manual in pigeon English so our esteemed colleagues on the opposite coast figure out what on earth is going on when things go wrong?
I think, no matter where one flies, it takes a lot of guts to put one of these cans into the water..language problems or not. Just an opinion
