CH-53 stuck gear - apply usual procedure
"The INTRODUCER"
Thread Starter
Yea it was posted in another topic, think i posted it a while back.. I wouldn't be standing under that nose thats for sure, awsome skill by the pilot all the same!
Avoid imitations
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The Germans used to keep piles of mattresses at their CH-53 operating fields for exactly this eventuality.
On the Puma we had a "sandbag plan" on board. We were supposed to give it to groundcrew who then went off searching for sandbags to place on it. Don't think it ever came in handy though. The only time I might have had call for it, sod's law said we had no fuel left....... total loss of ALL hydraulic fluid, including the reserve can - thankfully when it went "Bang!" I was quick enough to get three greens before it all blew off. The other time they dug holes in the ground for the aerials and landed all gear up. We all watched from a safe distance. Not so easy to dig on board ship though.
On the Puma we had a "sandbag plan" on board. We were supposed to give it to groundcrew who then went off searching for sandbags to place on it. Don't think it ever came in handy though. The only time I might have had call for it, sod's law said we had no fuel left....... total loss of ALL hydraulic fluid, including the reserve can - thankfully when it went "Bang!" I was quick enough to get three greens before it all blew off. The other time they dug holes in the ground for the aerials and landed all gear up. We all watched from a safe distance. Not so easy to dig on board ship though.
Not very bright by the engineers - they had no protection at all if the pilot twitched the nose forward. There must have been some piece of equipment they could have pushed under the nose just to stop themselves getting squashed. Not one of them was on intercom either (unless they have wireless headsets) and without one of them relaying handsignals or similar to the pilot they were very poorly placed in the event that anything else went wrong.
One of those situations when the rush of blood and adrenaline stops you thinking about safety procedures and afterwards you consider all the what - ifs.
One of those situations when the rush of blood and adrenaline stops you thinking about safety procedures and afterwards you consider all the what - ifs.
But isnt it usual to have a kind of DeckLandingOfficer with handsignals in front of the helicopter? In this video he might be standing outside of view from the camera?
Also the solution with sandbags would be a little bit difficult onboard a ship....
I remember a vid ( Florida? ) with a small airplane and one stuck main gear. They solved the problem from a pickup driving down the runway and a mechanic fixed it from there during the short lowlevel flight...
skadi
Also the solution with sandbags would be a little bit difficult onboard a ship....
I remember a vid ( Florida? ) with a small airplane and one stuck main gear. They solved the problem from a pickup driving down the runway and a mechanic fixed it from there during the short lowlevel flight...
skadi
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All I will say is it is easy to second guess after the fact, especially when you were not there. And as far as commo goes, you have to know the air crew was talking to someone on the radio the whole time so they were not clueless as to the status of the ground crew. They did a fine job, all of them.
Interesting video.
I've heard of similar tales with S61's, with an engineer releasing a stuck main gear from the sponson, whilst the crew held the aircraft in a low hover.
Mind you, I've watched an engineer change a main wheel on a Super Puma, whilst the aircraft was hovering/balanced on the other main wheel.
I've heard of similar tales with S61's, with an engineer releasing a stuck main gear from the sponson, whilst the crew held the aircraft in a low hover.
Mind you, I've watched an engineer change a main wheel on a Super Puma, whilst the aircraft was hovering/balanced on the other main wheel.
Hovering AND talking
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Didn't something similar happen to a Chinook at Abingdon Air Show a few years ago?
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
None of the ground crew look to the FDO for clearance out from the helicopter and none of them look anywhere except at the undercarriage during the procedure. Judging by the twitching in the hover before landing and the movement in pitch as the groundcrew run in, I would say the conditions are not as benign as they look.
Before landing - the aircrew did not have direct comms with the ground crew under the nose - a simple intercom lead to the team leader would have been sufficient. Had the pilot sneezed or twitched and a crewman been injured, the posts here would be full of condemnation for not taking adequate safety precautions.
Just putting a Flight Safety Officer's opinion on the video, that is all.
Before landing - the aircrew did not have direct comms with the ground crew under the nose - a simple intercom lead to the team leader would have been sufficient. Had the pilot sneezed or twitched and a crewman been injured, the posts here would be full of condemnation for not taking adequate safety precautions.
Just putting a Flight Safety Officer's opinion on the video, that is all.
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Crab, we were not there, nor (at least I do not think so) we have the official report to study at our leisure and in the comfortable confines of our cushy chair on a deck that is not moving. We don’t KNOW if there was no commo do we? Nope. Do we know the fuel state of the helicopter or how much of a hurry they were in? Nope. Do we know how far they were from a proper maintenance facility? Nope again. I am positive there could have been a plethora of other factors we can only guess about. I still say we need to be less prone to condemn when we do not know all the facts. I am still trying to learn that myself.
CH-53 Nose Gear Assistance
I have been surprised that old time 53A pilots have not contributed to this string, as the centering mechanism on the early production and test ships was occasionally " reluctant".
During that time at the factory in Stratford, we had a crewchief, John Godwin and his trusty 6 ft length of 2X4 at the ready. The scene looked pretty much as depicted in the 53E video. While John would apply his considerable strength to prying the nose gear around into an aligned position ( at which point the hydraulics takes over ), either another crewman on a long ICS cord or a truck with a radio would coordinate the affair. All the pilot has to do is touch the mains on the ground and hold position. The 53 hovers nose up so there is plenty of room to work the 2X4.
I am certain this manuever was accomplished a 'few" times by USMC crews!
Thanks
John Dixson
During that time at the factory in Stratford, we had a crewchief, John Godwin and his trusty 6 ft length of 2X4 at the ready. The scene looked pretty much as depicted in the 53E video. While John would apply his considerable strength to prying the nose gear around into an aligned position ( at which point the hydraulics takes over ), either another crewman on a long ICS cord or a truck with a radio would coordinate the affair. All the pilot has to do is touch the mains on the ground and hold position. The 53 hovers nose up so there is plenty of room to work the 2X4.
I am certain this manuever was accomplished a 'few" times by USMC crews!
Thanks
John Dixson
Just because they did it lots of times doesn't make it a safe procedure.
I reckon we can see the difference between Air Force pilots and Navy pilots....eh, Crab? Anyone can operate from a concrete airfield or heliport....but put them on something bobbin' in the oggin and there is a world of difference.
Same procedure I have seen used on 61's at Aberdeen.....must be a lot of ex-matelots there.
Same procedure I have seen used on 61's at Aberdeen.....must be a lot of ex-matelots there.
Some of the worst examples of attitudes to flight safety are appearing here;
1. It was safe because they had done it lots of times before - luck in getting away with something does not make it safe or right.
2. It was the procedure in the manual - so no-one has ever questioned the manual because it might be wrong?
3. Operational pressures overrule safe operating - that is doing the enemy's job for them
4. Navy pilots are better than Air Force pilots - perlleeeese....exactly the machismo attitude that engenders unsafe and risky practices.
1. It was safe because they had done it lots of times before - luck in getting away with something does not make it safe or right.
2. It was the procedure in the manual - so no-one has ever questioned the manual because it might be wrong?
3. Operational pressures overrule safe operating - that is doing the enemy's job for them
4. Navy pilots are better than Air Force pilots - perlleeeese....exactly the machismo attitude that engenders unsafe and risky practices.
Crab,
Sometimes you do come across as a bit of a prat
Watch the video again: the groundcrew, see those funny things they all have on their heads? Headsets, with radio comms.
See the crewman in the doorway, watching the procedure? Bet he's not there for fun.
Out of sight, for'd of the pilot? LSE, giving guidance to the pilot.
Out of sight, behind the camera? Flyco, with the Air Boss (we used to have Little F and Wings, but I hope I have the USN term right) in radio comms with the airframe drivers and the groundcrew.
Last guy out when the wheel is unlocked? He seems pretty much in charge around the machine, bet he's the maintenance crew chief, and is following SOP's for this event. And guess what? He's on comms with a headset
You've had a lot of advice on this thread, none of which seems to have sunk in.
Except SASless' bait, which seems to have been swallowed whole
Sometimes you do come across as a bit of a prat
Watch the video again: the groundcrew, see those funny things they all have on their heads? Headsets, with radio comms.
See the crewman in the doorway, watching the procedure? Bet he's not there for fun.
Out of sight, for'd of the pilot? LSE, giving guidance to the pilot.
Out of sight, behind the camera? Flyco, with the Air Boss (we used to have Little F and Wings, but I hope I have the USN term right) in radio comms with the airframe drivers and the groundcrew.
Last guy out when the wheel is unlocked? He seems pretty much in charge around the machine, bet he's the maintenance crew chief, and is following SOP's for this event. And guess what? He's on comms with a headset
You've had a lot of advice on this thread, none of which seems to have sunk in.
Except SASless' bait, which seems to have been swallowed whole