Sheffield Today 04/02/07 1500hrs
soggy you have mentioned a handfull over a period of 30 odd years and most of them are not actually simple head failure at all . They are a mixture of maintenance failure , and also lightning damage not repaired etc etc Name a few instances of heads just failing on aircraft less than 20 yrs old . I accept there will be one or two but if it were a regular thing that parts just fail people would not get into helicopters !!!!! I have been around them for over 30 years ( as i am sure you have ...) and when i climb into them ( i do choose which ones !) i have very little fear of things just failing.
You will find that when there is a failure there is usually a reason for it .
You will find that when there is a failure there is usually a reason for it .
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In the Haven of Peace
Age: 79
Posts: 600
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nigelh,
It matters not one whit whether a catastrophic failure is caused by component failure or maintenence failure, the result is exactly the same for the unlucky pilot. If you care to consult the Griffin accident database you'll find at least 6 accidents in the last 20 years caused by component failures in the main rotor system. I could only find 2 caused by ground resonance in the same period.
It matters not one whit whether a catastrophic failure is caused by component failure or maintenence failure, the result is exactly the same for the unlucky pilot. If you care to consult the Griffin accident database you'll find at least 6 accidents in the last 20 years caused by component failures in the main rotor system. I could only find 2 caused by ground resonance in the same period.
Nigel,
perhaps you would like to define what constitutes a 'head failure' so that we can be more selective with our suggestions. Clearly drag braces don't count in your book.
How about blade grips? I know of 2 212s that had such failures in the early 2000s. One on short finals to land and which would not have survived more than a few second longer. Or the 332 spindle/blade grip failure on take off from Aberdeen last year (or the one on take off from a platform in the 80s)? Or the KLM S-61 spindle failure in Holland in the mid 90s? What about drag damper failures: are they part of the head? Or the 212 that had a rotating scissors assembly drive nut failure, and promptly shook itself to bits as it fell.
Possibly these don't count as 'head failures' so which specific parts of a 'head' are you referring to?
perhaps you would like to define what constitutes a 'head failure' so that we can be more selective with our suggestions. Clearly drag braces don't count in your book.
How about blade grips? I know of 2 212s that had such failures in the early 2000s. One on short finals to land and which would not have survived more than a few second longer. Or the 332 spindle/blade grip failure on take off from Aberdeen last year (or the one on take off from a platform in the 80s)? Or the KLM S-61 spindle failure in Holland in the mid 90s? What about drag damper failures: are they part of the head? Or the 212 that had a rotating scissors assembly drive nut failure, and promptly shook itself to bits as it fell.
Possibly these don't count as 'head failures' so which specific parts of a 'head' are you referring to?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Worksop, UK
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was at Sheffield airport yesterday, and I think you will find that one of the blades departed for some unknown reason ??. I think this was the first flight after maintenance !!
Speechless2,
Yeah, but wasn't a 'head failure', how can you compare that to the Schweizer community?
(please feel the irony in my comment!
Yeah, but wasn't a 'head failure', how can you compare that to the Schweizer community?
(please feel the irony in my comment!
Main rotor head failures on Hiller 12e's were a common event. They would crack through the stud holes where the cuff and trunnions mounted. It was a daily inspection item and never lead to an accident on any of our aircraft although the potential was there.
About 10 years ago a 12e crashed in Holland having shed a mainrotor control paddle, part of the head assembly.
What about the Jetranger accidents caused when the TT straps failed. We are still paying the 2 year replacement penalty on that one.
Normally we speak of the main rotor head assembly which includes all the rotating parts except for the blades.
In the case of the S76 this also seems to include the swashplate assembly.
The main rotor hub assembly would normally not include dampers, drag braces e.t.c, but there are so many design variations that it is impossible to have a definite rule.
About 10 years ago a 12e crashed in Holland having shed a mainrotor control paddle, part of the head assembly.
What about the Jetranger accidents caused when the TT straps failed. We are still paying the 2 year replacement penalty on that one.
Normally we speak of the main rotor head assembly which includes all the rotating parts except for the blades.
In the case of the S76 this also seems to include the swashplate assembly.
The main rotor hub assembly would normally not include dampers, drag braces e.t.c, but there are so many design variations that it is impossible to have a definite rule.
Last edited by ericferret; 7th Feb 2008 at 11:18.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Possibly these don't count as 'head failures' so which specific parts of a 'head' are you referring to
212man, I think you'll know where I'm coming from
ok fine ..you win ..i was wrong . Head failure is still a common thing on helicopters which makes us either very stupid or very brave 
No not really ...i still think you are talking about a handfull of incidents spaced over many many years. If i didnt know better and stumbled on this thread i would definitely never go in a helicopter again 
statistically they are very safe which in itself rules out the myth of huge numbers of failures.
Lastly , i do think there is a difference between a failure due to manufacture or design and one from abuse/poor maintenance. The one i was in was poor maintenance ...i knew it was poor and still flew.....now i wouldnt have got into it . But if you guys want to feel like heroes flying deathtraps ....thats fine by me
ps it would be good if this was kept out of the press as it would be yet another nail in the coffin.
No not really ...i still think you are talking about a handfull of incidents spaced over many many years. If i didnt know better and stumbled on this thread i would definitely never go in a helicopter again statistically they are very safe which in itself rules out the myth of huge numbers of failures.Lastly , i do think there is a difference between a failure due to manufacture or design and one from abuse/poor maintenance. The one i was in was poor maintenance ...i knew it was poor and still flew.....now i wouldnt have got into it . But if you guys want to feel like heroes flying deathtraps ....thats fine by me
ps it would be good if this was kept out of the press as it would be yet another nail in the coffin.
agree with what you say ....used to do a bit in an Mi 8 in Russia .....every rod/bolt was the size of your arm !!!!! glad you havent ruined my faith in safe helis. ( relatively )
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: All over UK awaiting the dream.
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Efirmovich: Post #16
At best I see you might be 50% correct [according to another poster -the blades did not break off] - but it is my guess that that is precisely what you did, guess. Considering you seem unable to use a spell checker at least, I think you were indeed lucky. Go for it - get a lottery ticket and good luck to you.
Best Wishes
May be the transmissoin siezed and all the blades broke off !!
Best Wishes
