What route?

[Duffer500]

Hi there...

I finally sat my flying aptitude tests with the Navy yesterday...passing the Air Traffic Controller and Observer areas, but unfortunatly failing the pilot elements of the tests. Exactlty the situation I didnt want!!

I can still try out for the Navy, but as a potential Observer, or... I can wait and resit the tests in a year, where "statistically" I'll pass as pilot but wont then have age (23) on my side.

Having not really looked into private/commercial training in any depth, due to focusing my attention on the navy, I'm unsure of the best route to take. I realise its very expensive, but conversly... the navy is very competitive.

It seems there are very little sponsership schemes out there for rotary pilot wannabes. ? and alot of ex-military guys are walk straight into any jobs.

Does anyone have any advice? particularly with the financial side of things.
Any comments appreciated.

Thank you.

[r44flyer]

Funding your own training could well be crippling: it's roughly twice the cost of the equivalent fixed wing training. Those rotary pilots that I do know that have funded their own training from modest backgrounds have worked another career path to afford to get them training to instructor level, where they log hours until they can afford an IR. The big problem is always banking twin turbine hours. Many, or most, corporate/offshore/EMS/police type flying jobs require minimum twin turbine hours for employment, the cost of which is usually out of reach of most, as you'd be struggling to even self-fly-hire such an aircraft due to insurance requirements. The 'easiest' way to get lots of twin turbine hours is, of course, the forces.

The age thing you can look at in two different ways. Yes, you'll be on the upper limit so the RAF might not perceive this as them getting the most out of you in terms of length of service, at the end of the day you'll still be under 40 on finishing a full term commission either way. However, you could also say that if you're 23 this is their last chance, and if they want you they need to take you before you're too old.

If pilot is what you really want to do, then go for it whichever way you can. Don't accept observer in the hope of transferring, from what I've been told only once in a blue moon does this happen.

Consider offshore work as another route. You'll be bonded to pay for training, but you'll be getting all your tickets for little expenditure.

I probably haven't said anything you don't know already, but still.

EDIT: Just noticed you live in Aberdeen... probably the biggest offshore helicopter base in the UK.

[Whirlygig]

Bond Aviation ran a sponsorship scheme a few months; it was highly competitive and I believe all the places have been taken up. From what I gather the aptitude testing was not dissimilar to that used by the military so there would not have been any guarantee that you’d have got through.

I am not aware of any other offshore companies taking on students;bond or no bond so that's not really an option until you've got at least a CPL (with ATPL theory) and even then, you'd probably need an IR.

I would also be wary of joining the military purely as a means to learn to fly; the recruiting sergeant may well see through that!

Yes, it’s expensive; the only advice I can give is start saving and start researching! I would also suggest that to get to CPL/IR with ATPL theory and a twin-rating in a helicopter would cost nearer three times the equivalent fixed wing in the UK/Ireland.

Cheers

Whirls

[r44flyer]

Listen to Whirls, she has far more up-to-date knowledge than I do.

3 times the cost? Ouch, I'm glad I decided to start flying planks now.

[Whirlygig]

‘Fraid so when you take into account that it often takes more hours to qualify as a PPL(H) than PP(A), that the hours requirement to commence CPL is higher (OK, not by much but …) that the cost of an IR(H) is much more than fixed wing due to the requirement of it being on a twin-engine helicopter at £1,000 (ish!)

Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat and it can be possible to carry out the training abroad and convert to JAA etc. This is where the OP needs to research as it’s a minefield!

Cheers

Whirls

[helimutt]

Yes, Whirlygig is quite right. Save about £100k plus contingencies and it'll be somewhere near to what you need if you do it all in minimum times. Maybe I should write a book on how to go about it the cheapest way including all the pitfalls, scams, money saving ideas?

Could sell it for £50 a shot ( only 14 minutes in an R22 LMAO) so well worth the money.

from someone who has been there, seen it, done it, and now wearing the t-shirt (rubber suit?)

[Flingingwings]

Hey HM,

If you ever do write that book, can I help with the illustrations?

Thinks........

' Head like an orange on a tooth pick'

FW

[Whirlygig]

That's not a bad idea Helimutt! There is fixed wing equivalent book (which I bought and later sold as I realised it wasn't relevant).

Cheers

Whirls

[manfromuncle]

Go fixed wing. Lower cost and higher salary.

[helimutt]

Ok Whirly, i'm starting it tonight! It will be available, and advertised on PPRUNE, in 2 months time!

Hey Flingingwings, would love to see that picture.

http://www.moviesounds.com/axe/axe-head.wav

[Whirlygig]

If you need a good proof-reader, then they don't come much more pedantic than me! I can think of only one other!!

Cheers

Whirls

[Flingingwings]

HM, I'll email it to you

Whirls, As well as the proof reading HM would probably appreciate somebody copying his crayon scribbles into pen or type

[Whirlygig]

I can touch type and do joined up writing as well; perhaps dictation may be preferable if HM's handwriting could pass for my doctor's!

Cheers

Whirls

[Up & Away]

Fly Navy

Don't worry about 'failing the Pilots elements' as you call it.

The RN needs 4 Observers to each pilot at present is that maybe why?
I believe you can still join as aircrew up to age 26.

Send them a letter saying you will be back asap to try for 'Pilot' again.

The FAA of Royal Navy is a great way into Helicoptering whilst being paid and enjoying all the experiences that come your way. There are many of us in the Industry that have come up that way.

Even if you don't make it second time around it gives you some time to get some money together.

best wishes

[MBJ]

Be determined - The RN training is excellent, operational experience comprehensive and the Gin's cheap.

I work with a lot of guys who paid for their own training and my respect for their determination knows no bounds, but how the hell they afforded it I don't know.

Get the Queen to pay if you can!