One day you're a hero ...
As i wrote we do not know enough! And i do not blame Mr. Waugh, just my mind far away.
If a postman climbs down, itīs a real brave man.
I will fire any rescue trooper in my own area which proceed like:
"At first we are going to the accident site without rescue equipment, only to take a look and to spot the victim, than we are going back and grab the needed gear."
Especially if the car/equipment ist a distance away.
A minimum of needed equipment, rope, harness, first aid ... will weight only a dozen lbs, one single backpack is allways usefull in the initial attack.
I like the idea hanging on a cliff or laying injured on ground and the first rescuer comes up saying " Ok, i know now where you are and in which condition, stay cool iīm here again in 15 minutes."
Shoot me!
If a postman climbs down, itīs a real brave man.
I will fire any rescue trooper in my own area which proceed like:
"At first we are going to the accident site without rescue equipment, only to take a look and to spot the victim, than we are going back and grab the needed gear."
Especially if the car/equipment ist a distance away.
A minimum of needed equipment, rope, harness, first aid ... will weight only a dozen lbs, one single backpack is allways usefull in the initial attack.
I like the idea hanging on a cliff or laying injured on ground and the first rescuer comes up saying " Ok, i know now where you are and in which condition, stay cool iīm here again in 15 minutes."
Shoot me!
Last edited by tecpilot; 13th Jan 2008 at 08:28.
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Heres a thought. This time last year a coastguard aircrew member was quite seriously injured and left unconcious during an incident, injuries, for which they are still recieving treatment. Lets consider that the only thing that has been said to this individual is within 48 hours of the incident and whilst still carrying the injuries and doing his job 'because there is no one else' the only thing that is said to that individual, is 'are you going to sue us?'
Moving on a couple of months, lets then find this individual called out at the crack of sparrows completely ill equipped to look for an overdue yacht, reported missing. Suppose then this person insists; on finding the yacht having crawled around the north sea looking for him in bad IFR wx, that he take a tow off a lifeboat before the approaching bad stuff hits him, (bearing in mind he's been missing over a day now and has no radios).
A weak later this individual finds himself being hauled over the coals because he had no right to insist. He had no right to protect himself, his aircraft and crew from this individual getting them killed looking for them some time later when the inevitable happen.
Lets now consider why to the MCA the serious injury of crew engaged on duties for the MCA is acceptable, but protecting themselves from the various idiots of the world is not.
You now have an idea of the disturbed thinking of the MCA civil servant.
Moving on a couple of months, lets then find this individual called out at the crack of sparrows completely ill equipped to look for an overdue yacht, reported missing. Suppose then this person insists; on finding the yacht having crawled around the north sea looking for him in bad IFR wx, that he take a tow off a lifeboat before the approaching bad stuff hits him, (bearing in mind he's been missing over a day now and has no radios).
A weak later this individual finds himself being hauled over the coals because he had no right to insist. He had no right to protect himself, his aircraft and crew from this individual getting them killed looking for them some time later when the inevitable happen.
Lets now consider why to the MCA the serious injury of crew engaged on duties for the MCA is acceptable, but protecting themselves from the various idiots of the world is not.
You now have an idea of the disturbed thinking of the MCA civil servant.
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You now have an idea of the disturbed thinking of the MCA civil servant.
Too much for me to understand. I got enough trouble understanding tecpilot's thinking.
One minute he's suggesting the guy is a publicity seeker and the next he's suggesting he was negligent as well.
Too much for me to understand. I got enough trouble understanding tecpilot's thinking.
One minute he's suggesting the guy is a publicity seeker and the next he's suggesting he was negligent as well.
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The moral is, sadly, if you are in that invidious position, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. You are best just to leave well alone. It will cost you as much as it does them. One way or the other.
It was only a few months ago that 2 Police Community Support Officers were berated, both in the press and even by Members of Parliament on the TV, for not going in to a pond to search for a drowned child.
It appears, as Tonka says, that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't!!
The only answer is to put all health and safety reps out on a cliff face, lock all the rescue equipment away, and don't let them back to work until they have begged to be rescued by someone like Paul Waugh!
It is always easy to make difficult decisions from the safety of a warm office.
Thats my thoughts for what they are worth.
TeeS
It appears, as Tonka says, that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't!!
The only answer is to put all health and safety reps out on a cliff face, lock all the rescue equipment away, and don't let them back to work until they have begged to be rescued by someone like Paul Waugh!
It is always easy to make difficult decisions from the safety of a warm office.
Thats my thoughts for what they are worth.
TeeS
I agree those not 'out there' at an incident can easily say what they wish. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions can have far reaching consequences.
It's like saying don't ever jump into a river after your dog. You'll probably drown and the dog will most likely get out further down stream.
Do you think differently if it's a child or person? I think most of us would think of jumping in.
It's like saying don't ever jump into a river after your dog. You'll probably drown and the dog will most likely get out further down stream.
Do you think differently if it's a child or person? I think most of us would think of jumping in.
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You did the right thing!!
I know its a while since this was posted but I have only just come across the details.
You did the right thing, Well done and dont you ever forget it, or start to doubt yourself.
I wish your naysayers had the spine to 'do the right thing' with their chairbound dilema, and support your on the spot assessment. You were the one there and you were the one who had to act in realtime.
Its so easy for rear echelon types to act in hindsight.
Good luck in the future, I hope someone reading this will be in a position to help you in a new job, in a environment that has the right balance between SOP's/rules and dynamic descision making.
You did the right thing, Well done and dont you ever forget it, or start to doubt yourself.
I wish your naysayers had the spine to 'do the right thing' with their chairbound dilema, and support your on the spot assessment. You were the one there and you were the one who had to act in realtime.
Its so easy for rear echelon types to act in hindsight.
Good luck in the future, I hope someone reading this will be in a position to help you in a new job, in a environment that has the right balance between SOP's/rules and dynamic descision making.
Good Grief Charlie Brown!
Good on yer Paul!
Good on yer Paul!
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Unfortunately the UK, and some parts of the world, are becoming a 'Risk assessment', 'HSE' nightmare. As I see it, the only real reason behind it all these days is purely for economic reasons, ie not wanting to get sued in this litigious society we now find ourselves living in.
Well done Paul Waugh for having the balls to do what you felt right at the time. Pity those guys in the management positions, not at the coalface, who seem to lose touch with reality at times.
Well done Paul Waugh for having the balls to do what you felt right at the time. Pity those guys in the management positions, not at the coalface, who seem to lose touch with reality at times.
Plan B. You stand there looking down, waiting for help to arrive and she falls. Could you live with that?
A good friend of mine who has my massive respect is a skilled surgeon. He says these days, there's no such thing as an accident, it has to be someones fault. Where people used to say, "I slipped over, what a fool I feel", now they say, "It's in the hands of my lawyer..."
This will ultimately have an impact on high risk surgery where the patient will die if nothing is done, but if a brilliantly gifted bloke has the nuts to try something, they might just live. But if they're going to end up in court, they won't try it.
Long live litigation....
MS
Last edited by Max Shutterspeed; 16th May 2008 at 06:25.
Tis better to live life as a Wolf than as a Sheep!
