UK SAR Harmonisation
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Well said 3D Cam
Have to agree with you on most of what you say but I would one step further.
I would like the IPT to canvas ALL SAR crew on ALL SAR Bases (Airforce,Navy and Coastguard) on what they would like to see in this new contract.
I think there is a place for a 139 and that place is either Portland or Lee on Solent but not Both they are the only two bases so close that you could have one backing up the other with a larger Helo if needed
Justin
Have to agree with you on most of what you say but I would one step further.
I would like the IPT to canvas ALL SAR crew on ALL SAR Bases (Airforce,Navy and Coastguard) on what they would like to see in this new contract.
I think there is a place for a 139 and that place is either Portland or Lee on Solent but not Both they are the only two bases so close that you could have one backing up the other with a larger Helo if needed
Justin
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Can't see both Portland and Lee surviving anyway. One of them'll have to move east. Surely the people of Sussex, Kent and Essex deserve better coverage than they have at present.
How about ............................................................ .......Manston!
Now there's an idea.
How about ............................................................ .......Manston!
Now there's an idea.
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The idealism of youth!
The aircraft is going to be used purely for SAR, not troop lifting, underslinging or anything military!
I would like the IPT to canvas ALL SAR crew on ALL SAR Bases (Airforce,Navy and Coastguard) on what they would like to see in this new contract.
If the IPT need expertise from the front line then so be it. Only don't forget that Crab is not the only expert, there are some pretty experienced Crews on the MCA contract as well
I did have my name in the frame briefly for the SARH scoring team but perhaps my contentious views in the past might have queered the pitch in some peoples view-never mind, it sounds like it is going to be far from a barrel of laughs. And, since the mates of mine who are involved have generally similar viewpoints and experience, it won't affect the price of fish much and common sense will prevail.
There is a high probability that whatever aircraft end up filling the contract, they will be COMR (contractor owned and military registered) so that they can be crewed by both civvy and mil crews and can operate to military rules and regs (NVG for example). This solution is easy to achieve (the precedents already exist) and saves tedious battles with the CAA trying to work out how to marry the civilian rules to the SAR needs. With COMR you just adapt existing mil SOPs and crack on - you can even winch for training without being safe single engine!!
The problem with basing your aircraft selection on just one SAROP is that the next one will inevitably need the exact opposite - I think all the bidders are unanimous that a mix of large and small aircraft is the solution.
There is a high probability that whatever aircraft end up filling the contract, they will be COMR (contractor owned and military registered) so that they can be crewed by both civvy and mil crews and can operate to military rules and regs (NVG for example). This solution is easy to achieve (the precedents already exist) and saves tedious battles with the CAA trying to work out how to marry the civilian rules to the SAR needs. With COMR you just adapt existing mil SOPs and crack on - you can even winch for training without being safe single engine!!
The problem with basing your aircraft selection on just one SAROP is that the next one will inevitably need the exact opposite - I think all the bidders are unanimous that a mix of large and small aircraft is the solution.
I think there is a place for a 139 and that place is either Portland or Lee on Solent but not Both they are the only two bases so close that you could have one backing up the other with a larger Helo if needed
The Western end of the Portland patch is covered by Chivenor at night anyway-it wouldn't be difficult to do during the day as well
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Haven’t the Coastguard just built 2 brand new huge hangers at Lee and Portland if so I can’t see either of them moving any time soon.
Better idea would be to put the S92 into Portland and close Chivenor
Don't think that would upset to many people crab and you could always redeploy to a war zone and do what your trained to do.
Better idea would be to put the S92 into Portland and close Chivenor
Don't think that would upset to many people crab and you could always redeploy to a war zone and do what your trained to do.
What??? they have Sky TV and a locker full of chocolate in war zones?? I'm off
Crab said.
O.K. I'll rise to the bait.
When Portland receive their new faster aircraft, the 139, maybe they will be in your 'patch' a bit more often during the day? That is presuming ARCCK do not do their usual protectionism bit when considering taskings!
Now for my bit of bait.
Harmonisation sees both Chivenor and Culdrose closed and replaced by a unit at St. Mawgan/Newquay.
This will allow a new unit to be formed at Manston and push Wattisham up to Great Yarmouth.
Rescue 1
Yes, new hangars at Portland and Lee. Milllions of pounds worth!! If the military are to be used as role models,then they are both for the chop.
S92 at Portland? Gets my vote.
Lee do not need a large aircraft seeing as they spend most of their time acting as air ambulance for the Isle of Wight.
The Western end of the Portland patch is covered by Chivenor at night anyway-it wouldn't be difficult to do during the day as well
When Portland receive their new faster aircraft, the 139, maybe they will be in your 'patch' a bit more often during the day?
That is presuming ARCCK do not do their usual protectionism bit when considering taskings!Now for my bit of bait.
Harmonisation sees both Chivenor and Culdrose closed and replaced by a unit at St. Mawgan/Newquay.
This will allow a new unit to be formed at Manston and push Wattisham up to Great Yarmouth.Rescue 1
Yes, new hangars at Portland and Lee. Milllions of pounds worth!! If the military are to be used as role models,then they are both for the chop.
S92 at Portland? Gets my vote.
Lee do not need a large aircraft seeing as they spend most of their time acting as air ambulance for the Isle of Wight.
If we use the military as a role model then the SARH team had better base the new contract on supplying 36 aircraft.
Make that 48
Make that 48
Last edited by jeepys; 18th Jan 2008 at 17:37.
3D - who will cover South Wales then? 50% of Chivs jobs are there and that is a really long way from St Mawgan, even in a super-fast whizzy new helicopter. Then what happens if the St Mawgan aircraft is up in the Brecons and a job happens somwhere on the SW peninsula? Pretty poor response times I would suggest.
There look to be savings when basing is considered and the easy option is always to close one because it saves money - the balance sheet versus the service to the public......hmmmm probably the balance sheet will win every time.
As far as the current basing goes, it seems to work well and the only logical changes would be to move Wattisham to Manston or thereabouts and close Portland - (daytime only SAR...how quaint)
There look to be savings when basing is considered and the easy option is always to close one because it saves money - the balance sheet versus the service to the public......hmmmm probably the balance sheet will win every time.
As far as the current basing goes, it seems to work well and the only logical changes would be to move Wattisham to Manston or thereabouts and close Portland - (daytime only SAR...how quaint)
Crab said
Scrub the Chivenor move to St. Mawgan, howabout Brawdy?? Back to your roots??(The Flight that is.)
Not quite right there I'm afraid!(As you already know.) 0900-2100 actually.(2359 on "Ice Prince" night. A bloody long day!
) 24hr. with, if not before, harmonisation! As I have said before, 24hr will be welcomed with open arms!
3D
who will cover South Wales then? 50% of Chivs jobs are there
Back to your roots??(The Flight that is.)
Portland - (daytime only SAR...how quaint)
) 24hr. with, if not before, harmonisation! As I have said before, 24hr will be welcomed with open arms! 3D
Crab,
Portland - daytime only.
In fact it's 9 til 9 and that means in the winter months it's not daytime for the whole 12 hours. Perhaps the job they did the other night extracting the crew of the stricken vessel sw of Portland may help you to see that. That job went through to about midnight.
And yes it's daytime only certainly in the summer where there are shed loads of divers and holiday makers around Dorset getting in the ****. A fast response SAR machine such as Portland saves many idiots. If the mil covered this patch poor little johnny would be fish food by the time they got airborne let alone arrived.
Portland - daytime only.
In fact it's 9 til 9 and that means in the winter months it's not daytime for the whole 12 hours. Perhaps the job they did the other night extracting the crew of the stricken vessel sw of Portland may help you to see that. That job went through to about midnight.
And yes it's daytime only certainly in the summer where there are shed loads of divers and holiday makers around Dorset getting in the ****. A fast response SAR machine such as Portland saves many idiots. If the mil covered this patch poor little johnny would be fish food by the time they got airborne let alone arrived.
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If the mil covered this patch poor little johnny would be fish food by the time they got airborne let alone arrived.
How do you work that out then? Isn't everyone on RS15? Or are Portland on RS5?
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Every patch has extremities and if you happen to be in need of rescue in one, then that's just bad luck, just like it's bad luck if the weather's sh!t or if the helicopter's engaged in another rescue. The word on the street is that it'll be 12 bases come 2012 so there's always going to be somewhere that has marginally poorer coverage - that's just a fact of life. You can't base aircraft everywhere. Does little Johnny in Dorset have more right to be saved than little Jimmy in East Kent? Of course not and when you look at the present geographical spread of bases, especially in southern England, it makes no sense at all. Face facts, either Portland or Lee will have to shift eastwards. My money's on the one that's only needed 50% of the time at the moment. Bye bye Portland.
Face facts, either Portland or Lee will have to shift eastwards.
The word on the street is that it'll be 12 bases come 2012
It would be a very brave move to even suggest closing any SAR base. Portland went through that a few years ago and in fact the local M.P. even used it as part of his election campaign. Got in as well on the strength of it!
12 Military UK SAR Flights with new shiny aircraft - fabtastic, bring it on - tell you what, since there is already a civvy heli set up in the Falklands, you can have that one to keep you happy.
If you follow my logic re COMR aircraft then Military supervision will be required to ensure Mil rules and regs are being complied with and Mil standards will be doing the checking and training. We might let a few civilian crews come and share but only if you take your fair share of secondary duties and second standby
Standing by for incoming
PS good job on the Ice Prince
- tell you what, since there is already a civvy heli set up in the Falklands, you can have that one to keep you happy.If you follow my logic re COMR aircraft then Military supervision will be required to ensure Mil rules and regs are being complied with and Mil standards will be doing the checking and training. We might let a few civilian crews come and share but only if you take your fair share of secondary duties and second standby
Standing by for incoming
PS good job on the Ice Prince
Crab.
Mil standards?? Have they got any? No way am I lowering mine!
Oh. and who said anything about shiny new aircraft?
Military Flights? My uniform won't fit anymore, it's too big??? And you may have to salute me.
Ice Prince... yep. the boys dun good didn't they.
Rumour has it that ARCCK turned down the MCA request for Culdrose to launch as well, to back up the S61.
It would appear they think two lifeboats are as good as a Sea King! (NOT my opinion I hasten to add.) Although the lifeboats did a great job as well!
Mil standards?? Have they got any?
No way am I lowering mine!Oh. and who said anything about shiny new aircraft?
Military Flights? My uniform won't fit anymore, it's too big??? And you may have to salute me.
Ice Prince... yep. the boys dun good didn't they.
Rumour has it that ARCCK turned down the MCA request for Culdrose to launch as well, to back up the S61.
It would appear they think two lifeboats are as good as a Sea King! (NOT my opinion I hasten to add.) Although the lifeboats did a great job as well!